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1895 O I'm New To This And All The Counterfeits Scare Me.

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Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arcticsparky to your friends list
It looks like there is some green gunk on it and my wife said a bunch of black and greenish stuff came off it when she wiped it with a piece of toilet paper.
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United States
380 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  4:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arcticsparky to your friends list
I appreciate you guys taking some time to help me. Thanks.
What about acetone does anyone think that would be ok. I will probably resell this some time in the future.
Valued Member
357 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  4:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coinfanmorgan to your friends list
I wouldn't clean your coin in anyway unless one of the Pillars of the Community members on here suggests it. You don't want to rub anything against the silver dollar, which might result in decereasing the value. Best thing you can do is to wait and see what others suggest.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list
I don't see signs of polish--which normally expose bare silver and give it a "buffed" appearance.
It looks like natural wear--and possibly it was lost for a while on the ground or a reactive environment. Slabbing might get you a "details grade"
I'm guessing that's the source of the green encrustration--reaction of 10% copper to the elements.

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 Posted 12/11/2012  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
It looks like there is some green gunk on it and my wife said a bunch of black and greenish stuff came off it when she wiped it with a piece of toilet paper.


Not so good - that action right there could have left the parallel scratch marks which we see and call the coin "cleaned." She wasn't so much "removing" things as she was first "moving" those things across the surface of the coin before removing them.

I'm going to recommend this one for acetone, even though it goes against my general rule - I'll explain both.

First, I generally do not recommend the use of acetone on a coin whose surface already shows this much color, regardless of what that color might be. The problem is if the acetone works well. The color is not even over the surface of the coin, and acetone is unlikely to remove it all because chances are it isn't all stuff that acetone is effective on. What will remain is a coin with a blotchy appearance that will be an immediate signal to someone who knows what to look for - it's been cleaned.

But. The green I see, especially on the right reverse rim, looks to be the byproduct of attack by PVC byproducts. This is an active thing, an ongoing infection which will cause ruinous damage to the coin if allowed to continue. PVC removal trumps everything else.

Do a Search of the Main Coin Forum for the keyword "acetone." A number of good threads regarding its' safe usage will appear, and you need to look at them. You need to be particularly cognizant of the need for proper ventilation when using acetone because that's going to be tough where you are.

You got a decent price for this coin. I see no reason to doubt its' authenticity. Even if it ends up with the label "cleaned," you won't lose your shirt on the resale. It's a low-mintage, semi-key Morgan and it needs to be preserved for the future.

In this specific case, that means acetone. Soon. A few days for research is OK; a few months isn't.

Edited addition for DVCollector: I'm of the mind that PVC contamination - being "slimy" by nature when this extensive - will come off more easily with a wipe than would verdigris. So that's the conclusion I came to when "green" was mentioned. Frankly, with an 1895-O we can't afford to take the chance.

Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  4:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arcticsparky to your friends list
Thank you guys I appreciate it and am glad to be part of the community.
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 Posted 12/11/2012  5:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
Thank you guys I appreciate it and am glad to be part of the community.


Nice to have you. Now, go clean your coin.

I cannot believe I just posted that.
Bedrock of the Community
United States
10045 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  5:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add DVCollector to your friends list
I didn't consider the green was PVC--I hope acetone helps!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  5:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mds308 to your friends list
SsuperDdave,

If you were my Secret Santa recipient, I would have sent you some Brasso & Never-Dull.


Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  5:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add dave700x to your friends list

Quote:
I cannot believe I just posted that.


Further proof that there is always an exception to the rule.
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  5:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arcticsparky to your friends list
What is a "details grade".
Rest in Peace
United States
7075 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  5:56 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buddy to your friends list
"details" means the coin was cleaned

If you are thinking about sending this out to be graded and slabbed, you could let them conserve the coin for you. I don't know what that costs but it will save the coin.

My advice -- if you are going to try acetone, practice on something else first.

I've never tried cleaning a coin myself but I don't think I'd start with that one.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3486 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add matthewvincent to your friends list
Dear "Freezing up north!"
A "details grade" refers to the actual amount of wear and detail remaining on a coin.
And well it should, for "grading" should properly be limited to these areas.
Beyond the "details grade" lies the adjectives used to describe the coin further.
"lt clnd" = lightly cleaned. An old term but still appropriate.
"Dark toned" = "Not bright enough to please a collector who only wants 'bright white' coins."
Scratches, gouges, and the like are adjectives added to the technical grade to further explain the characteristics of a given coin.
In this day of plastic and labels, we old timers just have to laugh at what passes for a description.
Beyond this simple explanation, what further explanation would help you?

Example:

Details = VF-20
Scratched
Final grade = VF-20.

The scratch is not noticeable unless pointed out.
I bought it as a VF-20, scratched.
ANACS confirmed it.
It now resides in an album, freed from its plastic prison.

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 Posted 12/11/2012  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list

Quote:
I've never tried cleaning a coin myself but I don't think I'd start with that one.


This is, to my mind, not only a special case but a numismatic emergency. PVC contamination is active. Without intervention, it *will* wreck the coin beyond any real numismatic value. You'll normally hear me being much more conservative regarding acetone - I would never recommend acetone for a coin of this appearance absent the PVC.

Arcticsparky, the major Third-Party Graders (TPGs) will only offer their "normal" slabs for coins judged to be in completely original condition. Cleaning, accidental marks/scratches, environmental damage, all these and others will lead to what's called a "details" grade. The slab will be the same, but a notation will be made on it that the surfaces are not original. This, of course, leads to a substantial reduction in retail value.

Given the likely PVC contamination, your coin will likely get a Details grade anyways. No TPG will slab a coin at all which has an active PVC problem; they know it will destroy the coin if left unchecked. Only NGC's sister company, NCS, will professionally remove the PVC for you and then pass it on to NGC for encapsulation.

For the record, PVC is a plastic additive (polyvinyl chloride) used as a softening agent to make the plastic less brittle. Smell a new shower curtain - that's PVC. Its' outgassing interacts with silver, literally eating it away. And unfortunately, it used to be very commonly used in coin flips and containers. You're paying the price for that previous use.
Valued Member
United States
380 Posts
 Posted 12/11/2012  6:21 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Arcticsparky to your friends list
Thank you this has all been very helpfull. I went on a spending spree at the same time I bought this coin (about 4000 dollars), so I have alot of them that are lower grade to try the acetone on. I also aquired some other rare coins, which I'll show you guys when I can fly home later this week. I will put the advice I have been given to good use.
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