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1922-D Lincoln Error?

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New Member
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 12/27/2012  10:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray123 to your friends list
I am pretty sure that this coin is fake. As my first post says there were a couple of other coins in the lot that have very similar features, i.e, missing PL. I had bought this lot few months ago and it contained a lot of foreign coins and a lot of Lincoln pennies and nickels, etc. Many of the pennies were in 2x2 holders and many were loose coins. while I was sorting through them I came across 6 coins that were in 2x2's but with no writing on the holders (unlike all the other coins that were in 2x2's and had a description). At first I only noticed 3 of the five coins were missing PL, now I can see all six are missing the PL. I also noticed a couple of other flaws/features that are exactly the same among the six coins. Obviously it would be too much of a coincidence for that.
The coins are:1923-s, 1931, 1918-s, 1931-d, 1927-s, and the 1922-d in the photos.
I spent some time on the net to find a fake like this but I couldn't find the exact match.
Any one has any idea when these may have been made and how and by whom? Any fake experts here? :)
Also I am wondering why fake these coins instead of much more rare pennies...As some have said why bother with the D when it's easier not to have the D and have a more expensive fake coin.
While we are at it, is there a market for these fakes? Are there people who collect these types of coins?
If any one interested I can post the pictures of the other fakes.
Edited by ray123
12/27/2012 10:46 pm
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United States
56855 Posts
 Posted 12/28/2012  04:51 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add John1 to your friends list

Quote:
Any fake experts here? :)
Some would probably call me that There are collectors for fake coins. These coins are referred to as "black cabinet coins" Try Googling that.
John1
New Member
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  12:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray123 to your friends list
Thanks John1. What do you think these coins are worth to some one who collects them and how one goes about selling these?
Valued Member
United States
370 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  01:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add yvairguy to your friends list
So where does this stand? Are they real or not? I don't get the expense/reward to fake these, could it actually add up to a payday?
Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  08:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mds308 to your friends list
John1,

I'm a fake expert. I got my degree on line at the Community College of Numismaniacs. My diploma was sent to me on a 4GB memory card. I have the memory card framed and hanging over my office desk. This proves I'm a fake expert.

As for the reverse, I have found handfuls of these errors missing portions of E. PLURIBUS and some missing portions of the O on ONE. All coming from the 5K hoard I have been going through. Clogged dies or maybe worn dies.

As for the date.....I have no idea but the 19 looks flattened and the base of the 22 looks like a partial flattening too.

Did you ever weigh the coin? When you say fake do you mean altered or fabricated?
New Member
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  12:45 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray123 to your friends list
mds308: Take a look at that defect above the first you in UNUM. All the 6 coins have the same exact defect also beside the missing letters. Do your coins have the same issue? And there is another defect in the wheat that is common among all 6. So this is not just a case of tampering with a genuine coin, these are fabricated fakes.
Edited by ray123
12/30/2012 12:03 am
Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  5:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mds308 to your friends list
How did you acquire all the coins? Did you ever weigh them and then compare to other LWC? It's puzzling and out of my zone. I wish I knew more.
Valued Member
United States
366 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Windycity to your friends list
I agree that the coin looks like a counterfeit. Date and mm are wrong.
New Member
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  9:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray123 to your friends list
It weighs 3.2 -/+0.1 grams and it's not magnetic. I gave the story of how I acquired them in one of my prior posts above.
Pillar of the Community
United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  9:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list
I am not completely sure but my first impression is counterfeit possibly a struck one.
Valued Member
United States
163 Posts
 Posted 12/29/2012  11:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sab3927 to your friends list
The area at the E PL including the top of O is a notoriously weak area for wheats. My understanding is it caused by metal flow into the lower bust area on the obverse. Lots of metal filling the bust area leads to a weakness on the corresponding area of the reverse. The same principle applies to Cuds. There is a weak area of the design in back of the Cud caused by metal flowing into the huge die break.
New Member
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2012  10:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray123 to your friends list
As I said before I have six of these coins all with almost identical wear, almost identical characteristics and defects , only with different dates. These are definitely counterfeits. Their dates range from 1918 to 1931. So we are not talking about the same batch of coins from one year. I would have loved to know when these were made and if they are documented some where.... They show some age but that may be also part of the counterfeiting process.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1721 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2012  3:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mds308 to your friends list
ray123,

That is an interesting set of coins. I apologize for being slow to what you were describing. As for sending them to be graded, I don't think a TPG would/could grade them. PCGS would send them back in Mylar flips with an attached sticker claiming 'Questionable Authenticity.' This happened to me with a gold coin I sent in about 2 years ago. I'm sure there are people who collect various counterfeits (assuming yours are) but finding them would probably be achieved through Google. Also, if there are certain known counterfeiters who are more desirable, attributing your coins to him/her would be beneficial. I hope somebody else chimes in with more and better information.
Pillar of the Community
United States
3345 Posts
 Posted 12/30/2012  10:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add rachums107 to your friends list
Definetly looks fake to me
New Member
United States
30 Posts
 Posted 12/31/2012  11:54 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ray123 to your friends list
mds308: I am pretty sure they won't be graded as I am 100 percent sure they are counterfeits. To me they are interesting because whoever made them didn't try to counterfeit uncirculated coins or much rarer coins. My Google search hasn't helped so far to find the right place/people to sell these.
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