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1964 Peace Dollars?

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Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  09:44 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add crystalk64 to your friends list
All I have ever seen were pictures. Rumor has it some of them were not accounted for but...you know how rumors are! Some say a member of this forum, living way out west, is sitting on those unaccounted for but I won't mention his name!
Pillar of the Community
United States
1203 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add OldDan to your friends list
You know Terry, I have heard the same rumors about someone having one or two of these Peace dollars which aren't fake. But I also know for a fact that the U.S. Marshal of Montana has looked the area around Ennis, Montana fairly well without finding nary a ooe. We are starting to think old 'knowtracks' may have been funning us. What do you think1964-Peace-Dollars?
Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  12:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list
Why didn't they go to a 40% silver like the half dollars? And then to a regular clad? The Ike was still a ways out in the future at that point! Anyone have a picture of a counterfeit one? Mike
Edited by Mike
06/14/2005 12:44 pm
Valued Member
United States
187 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  1:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Twentycent to your friends list
Wasn't there something about President Johnson ordering these struck without the approval of Congress? I thought that was one of the main sticking points of them not being released. Also, I don't personally believe any exsit. Simply because people can't keep their mouths shut about it. If I had one, I know I would eventually show it to somebody with the statement "Hey, don't tell anybody, but look what I got."


Jerry
Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  2:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list
The dollar coin was NOT a legal coin as there was no law written for it. The Mint jumped the gun on this believing that congress would approve the bill. Many of these coins were sold at face value to Mint employees, then were ordered to return the coins. According to the few records that have been made public, as many as 6 coins were unaccounted for.
IF one of these coins were to be bought, there is a small "grey" area in which there could be a legal fight.
New Member
United States
2 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  6:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mr Lee to your friends list
quote:
IF one of these coins were to be bought, there is a small "grey" area in which there could be a legal fight.
IF one ever did come forward and IF it became legal to sell, any quesses on how much it would go for? More than the 1933 $20 Double Eagle?
Pillar Of The Community
3147 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  7:50 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add crystalk64 to your friends list
Hey Old Dan it wasn't KnowTracks I was thinking about but I suppose there could be a connection? I am pretty sure someone from the old CW forum was accused of having that stash but can't quite remember all the information presented at the time! Darn the luck!
Pillar of the Community
United States
867 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kyra to your friends list
I'd love the government to say that anyone who has a 64 Peace dollar could come forward and not risk getting into trouble. You know they're out there, I think we'd be surprised at how many would surface if they were made legal to own. *checks stash in mattress, sigh of relief* I think we'd be talking 7 figures if one ever legally came on the market!

Rachel [:p]

P.S. Hey Old Dan- love the signature line! Reminded me of my ex-brother-in-law when he was a teenager. That kid would eat anything!
Edited by Kyra
06/14/2005 8:45 pm
Pillar of the Community
United States
2724 Posts
 Posted 06/14/2005  8:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add national dealer to your friends list
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Lee
IF one ever did come forward and IF it became legal to sell, any quesses on how much it would go for? More than the 1933 $20 Double Eagle?


No way. It would certainly bring great money, but would not have a prayer of breaking 7 million. I would put a conservative value of $1.5 to 2 million.
What will break the record will be the 1794 Dollar currently owned by Rare Coin Wholesalers. This coin is believed to be the first silver dollar ever struck. It could see double digits easily. 10 to 12 million. Of course, they are getting tons of exposure from this coin, so I don't expect to see it on the market anytime soon.
Valued Member
United States
187 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2005  01:36 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Twentycent to your friends list
Well, from what national dealer said, it looks pretty probable a few do exisit. Any idea what excuses were given by those not returning them?
I don't think I lost it or accidently spent it would be very convincing. Or course that's what would probably happen to me for real.
The best would be if you went to Las Vegas between the time you bought it and they told you they wanted it back. You could say you took it with you as a good luck piece and put it in a slot machine on purpose.

The biggest bummer of all this though would be if someone got caught with it and the government took it away and melted it!!! That'd probably even P.O. people that hadn't even heard of it until it broke the news.


Jerry
Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2005  04:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add catman to your friends list
From my memory of the incident here's what happend. The government was short on Silver Dollars and the Gaming industry was yelling for coins to operate with.

The bill for the 1964 Peace dollar was introduced so that production could begin again. There was an argument within the walls of government whether a law was really required to strike the new 1964 Dollar coins. One side said that it was just a continuation of the Peace dollar series while the other side argued that since we hadn't produced the coin in such a long time we needed a new law.

While the battle waged the mint began producing the dies and having the planchets made. When all was ready they wanted to test everything. Figuring approval was locked in they ran a bunch of the new dollars and offered two to each person working at the mint. The employees had to pay $2.00 to get them.

Little did the general public know there were several laws waiting approval before congress that would change our coinage system. The 1964 Peace dollar, The new Gaming Token Bill, What would become the 1965 Coinage Act that would removal all silver from coins.The lower denominations first. The half dollar silver content would be reduced to 40% the all silver would be removed by 1971. (this is what caused the half to stop circulating).

Congress knew that they wanted to go off the silver standard. When the heard about the dollar coins being minted and handed out the Secretary of the Treasury ordered all the coins to be returned. A few of the people claimed they had sent them to friends overseas. When the counting was complete there were 4 coins missing. The new dollar was killed.

In order to appease the gaming industry and fill their need for coins Congress authorized a new gaming token bill that would allow the casinos to produce their own $1.00 tokens with some harsh restrictions. First they could not be used for ANYTHING except the gaming tables and slot machines. You couldn't spend them in restaurants, gift shops nor any other merchants. The casinos were very happy with this since the cost of production, at the time, was about .18 cents each. The casino collected $1.00 for each token that left as a souvenir.

Now congress was in place where they could remove the silver and begin producing the copper-clad coins. Worried about a possible coin shortage the mint produced 1964 dated coins for about one and a half years (which had never happend before) and removed the mint marks from all coins in 1965,1966 and 1967.

Are the four 1964 silver dollars legal? Possible. If it can be proved that the mint legally released the coins to ther employees then the private ownership would be valid. If the release of the coins was proved to be illegal then the coins remain the property of the U.S. Government.

This brings us all the way back to the original question. Was the 1964 Silver Dollar just a continuation of the Peace dollar series or was a new law needed before it could be issued.

In 1971 The last of the silver left our coins. The government wanted to eliminate the right of the casinos to produce their own tokens. They authorized the production of the first copper-clad dollar. The Eisenhower dollar. By this time the casinos were making a fortune off the tokens and people were use to carrying nothing large than a quarter in their pocket. The new Dollar failed. The casinos, through their lobbists and congressmen block the removal of the 1964 token law.

catman
Edited by catman
06/15/2005 10:06 am
Rest in Peace
United States
2884 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2005  04:33 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Mike to your friends list
Catman, thanks for the great history lesson behind this coin. You have an awesome memory! Mike
Valued Member
United States
187 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2005  3:27 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Twentycent to your friends list
Man what a deal! And a rarity for a couple different reasons. Where there ever any plans to make some proof ones?



Jerry
Rest in Peace
United States
954 Posts
 Posted 06/15/2005  4:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add catman to your friends list
Jerry,

At the stage they reach the answer is no. However if congress approved the production the dollar would have been in both the mint sets and the proof sets in 1964.

catman
Valued Member
United States
146 Posts
 Posted 08/22/2005  02:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add robocp to your friends list
That's the strangest thing,
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