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1877 Indian Head Cent #2 Fake Vs Real

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Valued Member
United States
131 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  3:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Stylez to your friends list
to me it looks like it was in a ring or something of that nature... I had a 1910 $2.50 indian head piece in a gothic ring setting and it had some of the same marks around the face edge... I'm just not sure who would put a coin like that in a metallic holder?...
Pillar of the Community
United States
968 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  4:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Saruma to your friends list
I'm not sure you will get a definitive answer here, just a lot of people agreeing with your suspicion that something doesn't seem right. If you are really uncomfortable with this coin then go ahead and open a case on ebay. First check and see if he has a policy of accepting returns if you simply aren't satisfied. That would make it very easy. If not then bring up the issues that have been discussed here as evidence that it may be altered or counterfeit. Just realize that win or lose you are likely to be blocked by that seller, so you probably won't be able to buy from him in the future.
Valued Member
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  4:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bababooey to your friends list
Saruma: thanks for the reply!

Well if it is clearly not genuine, I would never, ever, ever buy for the seller again, I'm not sure how being blocked would affect me.

I don't want to accuse anyone of selling a non-genuine product without just and clear reason. The time for returns has passed for that seller. And their policy is not removing from their case and sending it back if you are not happy. It's been removed from the case. So not being happy or suspicious is not a reason for a return at this point.

If it is not a genuine 1877 IHC this is fraud, and quite serious.

If the coin is real, I'm totally happy with the purchase regardless of the condition. If it is an altered coin from another date, or a coin made by someone other than the US government, then I'm not so happy.

Valued Member
United States
459 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  4:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add 1916 D Merc to your friends list
You could try submitting it to ANACs which will give you the lowest price, probably about $40 to submit just one coin.
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917 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  6:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add LincolnGuy to your friends list
Did you weigh it? Also when did you buy it?
Edited by LincolnGuy
09/02/2013 6:25 pm
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1751 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  7:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FadeToBlack to your friends list
I wouldn't touch it. Return it.
Valued Member
United States
250 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add kevro22 to your friends list
I have a couple of common dates in AG that are more worn on the obverse than the reverse, but not quite the disparity of your coin. Also have a couple of others where the lettering is almost gone but the date is easily readable. I looked at my ICG 1877 in AG as comparison, the dates look the same, but mine has a little more lettering visible and the reverse is noticeably more worn than yours. I'd take it to some local shops for opinion and maybe a coin show if one is in your area- I believe some of the grading companies show up on site sometimes to help in cases like this. Good luck.
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United States
5208 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  8:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jack jeckel to your friends list
Send it back while you can and look for a better example.

If anything when the seller relists it you may get it for a lower price if you really ant to take a gamble as I'm sure he wouldn't let you return it a second time.
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United States
1796 Posts
 Posted 09/02/2013  10:39 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SteveCaruso to your friends list
That's a toughie. Everything looks pretty good (including the date). The only thing that's "off" to me is that something looks wrong with "STATES." The font is different and the placement is different, unlike the rest of the legend (which seems in place).

1877-Indian-Head-Cent-#2-Fake-Vs-Real

However, given how much torture this coin has been through, I cannot give a definite opinion. A *lot* of metal has been moved around and removed from wear.
Edited by SteveCaruso
09/02/2013 10:40 pm
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United States
5854 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  12:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add D0ubl3Eagle to your friends list
The style of the date and the characteristic shallow N's appear to match the diagnostics of genuine examples but I do agree with others the discrepancy between the grades of the obverse and reverse is strange. The ones I have seen in low grades do seem to have a stronger reverse than obverse but not this great. One thing about the reverse that I noticed is there seems to be brighter patches of copper on the denticles, edges of the leaves, and One Cent which may be a clue to why the reverse has so much more detail. The obverse is more or less an even brown doesn't have the same patches the reverse has. Near the rim by the ribbon, the is some piece of black gunk which I am not sure if its clue or not. My guess is there may have been some substance on the reverse, though I am not sure why only the reverse, which protected it while it circulated and was much later cleaned and retoned/recolored producing the bright patches seen. That piece of gunk that I mentioned may or may not be that substance. Just my attempt at some sort of explanation but I could be total wrong.
Edited by D0ubl3Eagle
09/03/2013 01:09 am
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United States
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 Posted 09/03/2013  06:53 am  Show Profile   Check robbudo's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add robbudo to your friends list
I'd send it to ANACS.
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959 Posts
 Posted 09/03/2013  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mfhorn to your friends list
I agree with what Stylez said about mounting them in a ring. My father mounted two IHC cents and made a pair of cuff links (remember them?); the date being 1907 (his birth year). While the obv of these is much better than the 1877, they're also 30 years newer, and might have had much more use. He has them mounted to a round piece of metal, the same size as the coin, so I can't see any detail on the rev, but it has to be better than the obverse. These coins were also harshly cleaned.
The question was also asked; who would put a coin like that in a metallic holder? Of course 100 years ago, they were not viewed the way we see them today.
Valued Member
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2013  01:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bababooey to your friends list
Thanks for all the replies. I feel better about this coin now. I think that possible it could have been mounted in some sort of jewelry/ money clip, or something, causing the obverse to wear and not the reverse. I did not think about that before. The seller was upfront about the difference in wear, but did not offer an explanation or really get into the extent of the difference. There does appear to be have been some substance on the reverse. I may have noticed it, but did not think about is as a clue! Perhaps it was glued/ mounted in something and then restored, as was suggested. If it were a less valuable coin this effort to remove it from the jewelry probably would have not happened.

Edited by Bababooey
09/04/2013 02:02 am
Valued Member
United States
374 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2013  01:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bababooey to your friends list
Steve: thank you for your analysis and thoughts. It seems this is your area of interest/ specialization! I'd say if you can't say there is not something definitively wrong, then I'm satisfied as I'm going to be.

I'm not going to pursue this any further now. I bought what I could afford at this point, and the price of that savings comes with a little bit of doubt!

Perhaps, in the future, a graded specimen, for a coins of similar value, would bring more piece of mind.

If it is ever sold, sending to a grading services would be helpful. If/ when it is deemed genuine, the cost of the grading would be made up in the increase in sales price, that a graded coin would bring.
Edited by Bababooey
09/04/2013 02:01 am
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United States
9792 Posts
 Posted 09/04/2013  04:18 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add westcoin to your friends list
Give ANACS a shot at the authentication, they are good and cost reasonable! $10-15.00 + S&H no club to join either! If you're an ANA member you can also submit directly to NGC without joining their club. Saves some money in the end, but would give you the piece of mind whether or not it's genuine. I think it looks okay from the photos.
"Buy the Book Before You Buy the Coin" - Aaron R. Feldman - "And read it" - Me 2013!
ANA Life Member #3288 in good standing since 1981, ANS, Early American Coppers Member (EAC), Colonial Coin Collectors Club member (C4), Conder Token Collector Club member (CTCC), Civil War Token Society (CWTS) member, Liberty Seated Collectors Club (LSCC) & Numismatic Bibliomania Society member (NBS), USMex, Member in good standing, 2¢ variety collector.

See my want page: http://goccf.com/t/140440
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