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My Coins Always Look Like They're Made Of Silly Putty

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Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 10/25/2013  10:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
Oh ..... I forgot to say Thanks to SuperDave ..... and I do understand being out of things for a day or more at a time. I was away from this discussion for over 24 hours myself, and for the same reason.

Chance
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 Posted 10/25/2013  11:45 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Excellent. I can offer some more tailored recommendations with your specific camera in mind. Fuji's manual for this camera covers three different series; given that yours is the "highest" model number in the range, I'm inclined to suspect your camera will have all of the settings mentioned. If there's any question regarding accessing these settings, of course just ask.

You've a Full Manual Mode available, which is a boon. I'm guessing you're already using it. I'll go through various settings in the order in which they're displayed in your manual, on Page 70:

Scene Position: Having chosen "M," you won't be using this.

ISO: You apparently have ISO64 available. That's a very low setting - most cameras stop at 80 - and I have to wonder if they're doing something "artificial" to get there. One goal is to absolutely minimize in-camera processing of your images; I'm going to suggest ISO100 as a start point and 200 should be OK if you need it to shorten exposure times.

Image Size: L(4:3). Chosen only because the resulting image is as close to square as possible, meaning you're going to get the most-possible vertical pixels and therefore the largest final coin size in the sensor.

Image Quality: Fine. Use every bit of the sensor's capabilities.

Finepix Color: Standard. Refer to the above "as little processing as possible."

White Balance: Here's where you start playing a bit. White Balance is the camera's adjustment to the color cast of your lighting (color temperature) and I think you're currently using it on Auto. That's OK, as your colors seem right, but I advise switching to a monochromatic background - black, white or grey - to make the camera's task all the easier. You have the ability to do Custom white balance. Your camera wants to use white as the "base" for this measurement; use a small stack of printer paper as the "white" for this setting if you wish to utilize the capability.

Sharpness: Standard.

Face Detection: Off. Yes, most coins have a face but that's not what they're talking about.

Photometry: Ugh. Why don't they just call this "metering" like everyone else? Use "Spot" so the camera takes all metering information from the center of the image, i.e., only the coin.

AF Mode: Center, for the same reason as above.

The other settings as described on those pages are irrelevant. However, you might want to play with bracketing - this is where you shoot a series of 3 images for each shutter press, each varying in brightness. It's a good way to avoid multiple shooting tries when you're unsure of exposure, although experience will teach you how the image in your viewfinder relates to what you'll see on the screen and eventually you'll probably nail the exposure first-time, every-time. If you use this setting, use 1/3EV.

OK. Experience with varying P&S-type cameras (yours is one, the alternative being interchangeable-lens types) makes me think you're going to find your camera's aperture "sweet spot" at about f/5.6. Maybe one stop lower or higher. Use the widest (lowest numerically) aperture which gives you a satisfactory depth of field; P&S cameras can do this with wider apertures than a dSLR. A wider aperture gives you more latitude for lighting and exposure, always a good thing.

Your camera has a self-timer; 2 seconds is enough.

You are working towards aperture and ISO settings which allow you to set an exposure of 1/100 or faster, roughly speaking. If ISO200 and f/5.6 don't allow you 1/100 or faster for a lustrous coin (for that, I'd hope for 1/200 or faster as duller coins will require longer exposures), you need more lighting. Longer exposures increase the chance of outside vibrations affecting the shot. This may seem nitpicky to some, but it's a definite factor in macro coin photography. You're pushing limits here which aren't normally pushed in photography.

That, in combination with my previous post, is a start. There are more refinements possible, but that falls into the category of "extreme tweaking" and we may not need to go there. This should give you enough to play with.
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 Posted 10/25/2013  12:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
Thanks Dave ... for the in depth response. I really appreciate your time and willingness to help. Time is too precious to some (most) folks, and I appreciate that which you have committed to my specific query.

I'm going to have to read this through several times ... 'cuz right now the vacuum cleaner is whistling away in the next room ... and I don't learn well at all in an environment full of external stimuli.

I got a pretty nice 1909 UNC Indian Head cent delivered today. Looks like a nice piece of subject matter for experimenting with the settings.

Chance
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 Posted 10/25/2013  1:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I have a plan B ...

I printed Dave's prescription for a starting point. I take pictures in the other building, separate from this computer. Not always convenient.

Chance
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 Posted 10/25/2013  2:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Thank you for the kind words, Chance, but be aware that's what we do here in this forum. I'm hardly the only member here with a longstanding commitment to helping others develop their photography skills; the key to being able to accurately interpret coin images relates directly to one's own experience and skill level when creating one's own images.

This is an increasingly-necessary skill in a world where more and more coins are being sold via the Internet, using photographs. I feel very strongly that these skills are as necessary as the ability to grade in today's numismatic market.
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 Posted 10/25/2013  4:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I saw the title of another post ... about "trying my hand at making money with coin photography" ... and thought ... yep, anybody that's ever tried to sell a coin with a picture they've snapped is doing exactly that. Profit or loss is directly attributable to quality of the images you can afford the prospective buyer.

I appreciate everybody's input. It does take time, and it's time you're not paid for ... so acknowledging that is the least that a person can do.

So, until you're better paid (as an older gentleman I once knew used to say) Thanks to all.

I'll post some pics of the 1909 IHC tonight ... hopefully. Maybe it will look like a crisply minted coin and not a piece of 50s hammered aluminum barware. But I'll stillbe limited in the lighting department for the time being.

Chance
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 Posted 10/26/2013  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I'm still out here, and haven't lost interest in pursuing this. I can become distracted though. I tend to be obsessive-compulsive, though and some of you know me well enough to have figured that out already.

Here's a "silly putty" point and shoot pic of the 1909 IHC that I just got on wednesday. I am going to attempt to do a much better job of capturing the coin as it appears "in hand", because this image really doesn't. But it's a good one to use as a starting point.

Chance

My-Coins-Always-Look-Like-They're-Made-Of-Silly-Putty

Edited by Chancellor Sutler
10/26/2013 9:15 pm
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 10/29/2013  2:40 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
Still having trouble with the controls ... most notably, the camera likes to select an aperture of 3.1 or 8, and I have yet to figure out how to tweak that. The batteries are charging again ... but I got an 1859 Indian in from a stamp dealer in Italy today, and figured that I'd shoot them together ... "first and last"

Too much post processing to even get them this close.

I'm using an ott light ... full spectrum, and was able to adjust the white balance, but all fluorescent lights cycle, so that's just not going to work.

Chance

My-Coins-Always-Look-Like-They're-Made-Of-Silly-Putty

My-Coins-Always-Look-Like-They're-Made-Of-Silly-Putty
Edited by Chancellor Sutler
10/29/2013 2:42 pm
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 Posted 10/29/2013  8:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Keep in mind, having chosen the "M" setting for full Manual operation, you need to make all of the shot setting choices yourself. If you don't like the aperture, don't let the camera set it there.
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 Posted 10/29/2013  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chancellor Sutler to your friends list
I think that I need to use the button on the front of the camera ... the one that has the plus and minus on it, to make that adjustment. But toggling the touch pad only allows switching between 3.1 and 8.

That's why I said I'm having trouble with "the controls". I am going to dig out the manual and see if I can't learn how to drive this thing.

Chance
Valued Member
United States
93 Posts
 Posted 11/19/2013  3:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buffalo Bill to your friends list
Chance have you made any progress?

I have the same camera and the same problem. Silver coins look like hand forged silly putty.

My-Coins-Always-Look-Like-They're-Made-Of-Silly-Putty
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 Posted 11/19/2013  4:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SsuperDdave to your friends list
Buffalo Bill, that is a great image and precisely what I expect to see an AU 1921 Morgan to look like in an online posting.
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 Posted 11/19/2013  4:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buffalo Bill to your friends list
Thanks Dave.

That is a 50% reduction of the original image. I also corrected the color and sharpened it. This is the best out of about 20 images.
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 Posted 11/19/2013  4:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buffalo Bill to your friends list
The full size image has the putty problem Chance was talking about.
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 Posted 11/19/2013  5:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Buffalo Bill to your friends list
These are a more accurate representation. The difference being a single light source on the first and diffuse sunlight from the bottom on these.

These are ISO 64 the other is ISO 400.

My-Coins-Always-Look-Like-They're-Made-Of-Silly-Putty

My-Coins-Always-Look-Like-They're-Made-Of-Silly-Putty
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