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 Replies: 18 / Views: 4,681 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
Supah David, that's the way I see it. Abetting thousands of counterfeiters - they're basically admitting it and throwing in the towel (can't beat em join em). We were probably getting in the way of business and profits. Now it's a freeforall.
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Rest in Peace
United States
10625 Posts |
What would the repercussions be if someone were to bid and win an auction for an obvious counterfeit and simply not pay with the reason being it is counterfeit?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2669 Posts |
Since they have nobody there to verify that anymore, the buyer would probably still have to pay up.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
519 Posts |
I think the root of the problem lies in the fact that ebay is so dominant in the marketplace that the majority of both buyers and sellers are reliant upon it for online transactions. As a community, I think we need to further identify, promote, and develop alternative marketplaces for online numismatic transactions. What some may term "voting with your wallet". What swamperbob has described is akin to a sprawling metropolis ( ebay) trying to operate without a police force. What I would like to see is a site controlled, or at least monitored, by numismatic associations (ANA, RCNA etc...). With membership in a participating association being necessary for site participation (for selling, I'm not sure it would be realistic for buyers as well). Obviously the inclusion of an association would require congruent policies. You couldn't include "swamperbob's association" (for example purposes only) if such an association allowed deceitful or illegal practices to take place. This would create control over who is able to sell items on the site and penalties (accountability) for those found in breach of the association's terms. Within the site you would have sub-categories, as is commonly seen. Each of those sub-categories would be monitored by a representative subject matter expert (or a group/team). In this way, the numismatic community could control who is able to sell on the site, and impose real penalties for those who break the rules. It would have the added benefit of increasing membership and thus strengthening the numismatic community while likely decreasing membership cost and increasing the services they would be able to provide. This being the case simply because of efficiencies created with a larger membership. Just my opinion and I'm sure it is far from perfect as I only really thought about this as a result of the original post. Edited by o-train
05/24/2014 3:07 pm
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Valued Member
United States
66 Posts |
OK so I was planning on buying a few coins from e-bay during the next two or three weeks. What is the best alternative if I choose to vote with my $.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1554 Posts |
Maybe there is a coin show in your area. Best place to buy.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Quote:What I would like to see is a site controlled, or at least monitored, by numismatic associations (ANA, RCNA etc...). With membership in a participating association being necessary for site participation (for selling, I'm not sure it would be realistic for buyers as well). etc... Unfortunately this seems all too complicated to me. Firstly the advantage of ebay is that I or you or Joe down the street can buy and sell to the world for really quite reasonable costs. I have two coins for sale right now. If I had to be a member of a numismatic association it wouldn't be practical for me to sell. Secondly there are already sites that offer 'multi-dealer' shop fronts. vcoins in the US. ma-shops in Germany for example. But these are not as extensive or as well known as ebay, nor open to hobbyists to sell their coins. Which doesn't mean I have an answer .. although sites like this where people can check out potential purchases certainly help. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
972 Posts |
What is the EMR system or program? What does EMR mean?  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
519 Posts |
The advantages of ebay can also be disadvantages if Joe down the street is an unscrupulous seller. I think ebay is great, but I also think they have an obligation to take reasonable steps to ensure illegal transactions are not taking place on their site. I understand what you mean about membership fees but it doesn't have to be expensive. For example I could become a member of the Ontario Numismatic Association for $20/yr or $15 for a digital membership. The local coin club I am a member of is about the same cost which I consider inexpensive compared with the benefits of membership. You could have lower fees than ebay and funnel the money back into the hobby instead of a private company. The traffic wouldn't be anywhere close to ebay, especially initially. However, the associations already have established memberships which they contact on a regular basis. It wouldn't be hard to let everyone know that a website had been created for online sales. According to the ANA website they have almost 28 000 members so they could do something like this on their own probably. Sellers could take out an add in the ANA magazine: The Numismatist, for high value items. With a readership that big and a bit of awareness I think that would generate a fair amount of interest. Especially with a below market buyer's premium. |
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Moderator
 United States
189340 Posts |
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Maybe there is a coin show in your area. Best place to buy.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
Quote:
I understand what you mean about membership fees but it doesn't have to be expensive. For example I could become a member of the Ontario Numismatic Association for $20/yr or $15 for a digital membership. The local coin club I am a member of is about the same cost which I consider inexpensive compared with the benefits of membership.
I was just thinking that while coin collecting is a very active hobby in the US, that ain't necessarily so in other countries o-train. Here in the UK my nearest coin shop is five towns away and probably about the same to the nearest active coin club. The British Numismatic Society can be joined for a bit over $50 but I've always felt the cost could go on my next coin I'm afraid! ebay has an international presence which would be difficult to replace. Which of course isn't to say that I don't agree in principle with the idea of coin(y) 'communities' (including this one of course) helping to educate and inform other collectors and the public. Undoubtedly online contacts have benefitted me in ways that perhaps others have gained through local clubs and stores and shows. Maybe that's an area for continued expansion? Oh, and anyone else have this sneaking suspicion that ebay's simple response to this would be to turn around and say (in the US at least) that no raw coins may be bought or sold on ebay? Neatly passing the buck as it were to the TPGS to police the issue at no cost or comeback to themselves ...  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3203 Posts |
Note to self.... ebay for coins -- ah... no.... For me there are too many other options locally and there are loads and loads of other online options... ebay has become a cesspool at least with regards to coins and stamps. The fact that they seem to be unwilling now to police the activity means that I will no longer participate there as a place to look for my hobby. Onward and forward as they say.... |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
856 Posts |
I think ebay still has it's place. There are some coins that just aren't worth faking! But when I look at my records, compared to when I first started out and almost all my purchases were on ebay, last year only two of the six coins I bought were. And I knew the seller of one of those by reputation if not personally. The others were from auction houses or online dealers and I can see this proportion only increasing in the future ... For me the attraction of ebay was already fading maybe .. |
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New Member
United States
13 Posts |
Quote:
What would the repercussions be if someone were to bid and win an auction for an obvious counterfeit and simply not pay with the reason being it is counterfeit? if the item is not removed, you could end up with UPI strikes and this would hurt your account with other sellers that have restrictions set to prevent buyers with high UPI counts to not be able to buy from them. i use dummy accounts to purchase counterfeits so that way if the account is ever nuked, it doesn't affect my buying/selling. the account has false info so the sellers can't find out whom I am. sometimes they get removed, sometimes they don't. the sellers almost always act like raving psychotics that I don't pay and I usually don't get caught up in their madness as there is no point. make no mistake about it, counterfeit sellers have been hammering ebay stating they are being unfairly harassed and such and such. you can imagine the nonsense they waste ebay's time with. I would be astonished to learn that this would have no bearing on the current events regarding ebay and counterfeit reporting/removal. . |
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Valued Member
United States
161 Posts |
The whole situation with counterfeits on the bay has gotten so bad that I refuse to buy a coin of the bay unless it is slabbed. Even doing this I am still hesitant that the slab is fake. It is pretty sad though that I have to dish out extra $ to buy a slabbed coin I would usually buy raw. Nice to know ebay has a genuine concern for their buyers.... |
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Replies: 18 / Views: 4,681 |
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Posted 05/24/2014 1:13 pm
