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Valued Member
United States
331 Posts |
the day they go into negative numbers the services
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Pillar of the Community
United States
675 Posts |
Certainly looks like a legit P-01 coin to me. That coin could tell some stories!
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
8137 Posts |
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Bedrock of the Community
Canada
11922 Posts |
PO-1, very nice  |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
How can you tell there isn't a mint mark on it? How can you tell the date?
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Valued Member
292 Posts |
So... I see the "4" at the end of the date but I can't see a "2" and since Peace dollars were also made in 1934, it could be from that year too. Also, am I crazy or do I see a "D" in the mint mark location? |
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Moderator
United States
15441 Posts |
I humbly claim some expertise on the topic ... having seven PO01 Peace dollars certified by PCGS from raw coins I've acquired. There is a significant numismatic difference between a coin that has worn to (or beyond) PO01 state and a coin that is certifiable as a PO01. Any certifiable lowball coin must meet all of the following requirements .... 1. It must be specifically identifiable by type. 2. It must be specifically identifiable by date & mint mark. 3. It must have original (un-cleaned) surfaces. 4. It must be damage free (rim hits, graffiti, gouging, etc) For the Peace dollar series, the 1921 is a single year type and can be specifically identified by the shape of the portraits even when the date has worn away. The remaining 23 coins in the Peace dollar series must show a definite date and mint mark to be considered eligible for PO01 status. Judging by the photos provided, I am unable to say the four certifiable PO01 requirements can be met - concur that this coin has worn to (or beyond) P001 condition. Quote:
Also, am I crazy or do I see a "D" in the mint mark location? There were no Denver minted 1924 Peace dollars ... although there was a D example in 1934. Bottom line Connor - can you make out a for sure specific date/mm? David Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.artEdited by nickelsearcher
05/31/2015 06:26 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2130 Posts |
Nickelsearcher...thanks for your response. Wow...seven PO-01 Peace dollars. That is pretty amazing. Now to my coin... Here are the answers to 1-4 of the requirements. 1. This coin is identiifiable by type. 2. This coin is identifiable by date. (It has to be held at the right angle to see that it is a 1924 and not a 1934. It is hard for me to provide a photo of this but in hand it can be seen. Now to the part I don't quite understand. The mintmark...There is not a mintmark visible on this coin nor any signs that there ever was one on tis coin. How do you and a TPG determine if there was ever a mint mark on the coin when if the coin truly came from the Philedelphia mint there would have never been one? Maybe I will understand this better if you wil provide a photo for one of your PO-01 Peace dollars. I am guessing by what you and SuperDave are saying is that this coin is worn behond the point of being certified PO-01. 3. I think the surfaces are original and uncleaned for a coin in this condition. It is aleast market acceptable in my opinion, not sure about TPG acceptable since I have never dealt with TPG's alot. 4. Once again, judging by other PO-01 coins I have seen I would say this coin loks as good as others I have seen in TPG holders. Thanks again for all the responses...I just can't wrap my brain around the MM. I think when looking for a mintmark we are being forced to magically imagine a MM was once there when in reality it was never there. |
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Moderator
United States
15441 Posts |
Connor - I can fully relate to the challenge of trying to 'prove a negative' that this coin (or any well worn Peace dollar) never had a mint mark to begin with. The Peace dollars in true (certifiable) lowball state are diabolically challenging in that the mint mark location tends to wear faster than the final traces of the date ... Which leaves coins such as yours (date visible) questionable in terms of authenticity. In my experience it is easier to find a certifiable branch mint Peace dollar because the presence of the mint mark can be easily and visually validated. Here is a photo that might assist. 1925 (Philly) Peace dollar - PCGS PO01 Your 1924 coin - should it be Philly mint ... would be the 6th such PO01 coin of that date if certified by PCGS. David Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2130 Posts |
David...Thanks for your time and help with explaining things. In your honest opinion would you spend the time and money in having this coin submited to PCGS based on the info I have told you and the pictures provided?
I enjoy the hunt for these coins. I never pay more than $20 for these...most have been under $15.
It is truly very challenging trying to find a raw PO-01 coin. I now fully understand why the price of a PO-01 coin is so high.
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Moderator
United States
15441 Posts |
If it were my coin, and based on what you have stated, I would submit it after satisfying two additional items ... There is a lot of fine surface scratching visible in the photos. I would examine the surfaces closely and satisfy myself they are the result of circulation wear and not a wiping/cleaning. Circulation wear scratches generally go in random directions across the coins surface, while cleaning scratches generally are consistent in direction. Secondly ... I would closely examine the area on the reverse fields to the right side of the eagle's legs. I would satisfy myself those incuse marks are not the result of someone in the past 'tooling' the coin. Either of the two items above (cleaning and damage) would preclude certification even if the lack of a mint mark can be established. Best of wishes should you decide to make the attempt ... be advised that I have as many (perhaps more) Code 86 Peace dollars (authenticity unverifiable)from PCGS as I have PO01 examples!  David Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2130 Posts |
I truly believe that we are looking at circulation scratches instead of cleaning scratches. As far as the marks beside the eagle's leg....I don't really know a lot about tooling. I'm not really sure if it is as a result of tooling or not.
I have never submitted a coin in my life before so I guess I am going to need to try to find a coin shop in the eastern NC area that would submit it for me.
Another question...does PCGS still put the coin in a slab if it gets the Code 86? or do they just return it as is?
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Moderator
United States
15441 Posts |
PCGS will return a Code 86 coin in a plastic flip and will not place it in a holder. The flip gets labeled 'Authenticity Unverifiable'. DAMHIKT.  PCGS will holder a 'Details' coin (cleaned, damaged) with an approximate grade. The holder will state 'Genuine Not Gradable' If you run into troubles finding a dealer I'd be willing to help out a fellow CCF member and submit the coin on your behalf as part of my next submittal to PCGS. David Take a look at my other hobby ... http://www.jk-dk.art |
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
There's no assurance that this coin would_not receive a righteous P01 grade; there just isn't sufficient information available from the images to confirm one way or another. I quite doubt it would, as there's too much wear where the mint mark would be to ever be sure in my opinion, but without very careful imaging and/or the coin in hand I wouldn't be certain. I saw the hairlines as well, and chances are this one's been brushed heavily (kind of doubt that blackness where the brush couldn't reach is the only place it originally was) but the same caution as above still applies. Not enough information to be sure. Peace dollars are a bear to make P01 from because of the mint mark location. |
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Posted 05/30/2015 8:14 pm
