| Author |
 Replies: 19 / Views: 2,964 |
Page 2 of 2
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Wouldn't the statute of limitations come into play at that point? The coins were stolen 82 years ago. When the Saddle Ridge Hoard was found, the government didn't try to confiscate the coins, even though the coins were very likely stolen or acquired through illegitimate means.
The "only" '33 double eagle was allowed to go to auction despite being stolen as well--the owner just had to pay the US government $20.
Let the coins go to auction, collect taxes on the sales, and be done with it.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
They left something out in their petition.
"The family of a thief now stands to benefit in the millions of dollars on the basis of property that belongs to the people of the United States, because we didn't obey the law.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
forfeiture law is pretty black letter (well established for you non-legal folks), the appeals court that held the coins should go back to the family did so because the government failed to comply with the forfeiture regulations. These types of cases happen all the time and its pretty routine stuff, the only reason the government appealed I imagine was of the high profile nature of the case. I'd wager the coins end up with the family in the end with a successful motion to dismiss by the family's attorneys.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
They should tell the family that they're sorry but it looks like someone stole them again lol.
Give them 20 dollars per coin lol.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
Edited by 52Raymo
07/04/2015 7:19 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Quote:
the appeals court that held the coins should go back to the family did so because the government failed to comply with the forfeiture regulations. It is not a question of obeying the forfeiture laws, it is a question of whether the forfeiture laws apply here at all. You are not required to apply for forfeiture to get your own property back. How could the Langbords be required to "forfeit" property the civil court ruled was never theirs to begin with. My bet is that the coins are returned to the Gov't in the end. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
You are not required to apply for forfeiture to get your own property back. How could the Langbords be required to "forfeit" property the civil court ruled was never theirs to begin with. Temporal problems there, at the time the forfeiture reply was needed it had NOT been determined that the coins WERE the property of the government. So it would have to be assumed (at that time) that the coins might actually belong to the Langbords. The Langbord's lawyers filed an appeal of the governments seizure and the government HAD to reply to that filing. They didn't so the law says they lost. |
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
Do they even know how he obtained them? HE BOUGHT THEM. He is not the real thief.
Israel Switt was a known gold fence, not just your typical jewelry merchant. Quote:
Wouldn't the statute of limitations come into play at that point? SoL only applies to the filing of criminal charges but stolen property is always forfeit. Quote:
When the Saddle Ridge Hoard was found, the government didn't try to confiscate the coins, even though the coins were very likely stolen or acquired through illegitimate means.
The matter was thoroughly researched and the hoard did not match the haul from any thefts from that time period. The coins were also placed in the containers in rough sequential date order from bottom to top so it was most likely a hoard accumulated over decades. Quote:
The "only" '33 double eagle was allowed to go to auction despite being stolen as well
The King Farouk specimen was granted an export license in the 1940s, that is the only thing that saved it. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2543 Posts |
Quote:
Temporal problems there, at the time the forfeiture reply was needed it had NOT been determined that the coins WERE the property of the government. And therein lies the basis of this appeal, which will make this case very interesting to follow. The civil court didn't "determine" that these were stolen, they "confirmed' that these were stolen. The U.S. Government declared any and all 1933 Double Eagles, as stolen in 1944. They then empowered the Secret Service to track down and recover them. They estimated twenty were outstanding and they recovered ten of them. These coins were deemed stolen long before the civil courts became involved and the Secret Service has been searching for them ever since.. One justice agreed with the family lawyers and one justice agreed with the government's contention. One lone justice swayed the vote on his interpretation of the technicalities of the law. Did anyone really think the government was going to let the family of a know theif get away with $80 mil. on the opinion of one single appeals court justice? Hello SCOTUS? Interesting indeed. |
|
Moderator
 United States
189650 Posts |
Quote:
Did anyone really think the government was going to let the family of a know theif get away with $80 mil. on the opinion of one single appeals court justice? Hello SCOTUS? This. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
589 Posts |
Quote:
The "only" '33 double eagle was allowed to go to auction despite being stolen as well--the owner just had to pay the US government $20. Not quite. The owner was ordered to auction it, half of the final amount went to the government, plus a $20 monetization fee was tacked onto the winning bid amount (that additionally went to the government). However, where this is concerned, even if it went to the Supreme Court, the GOVERNMENT is in possession of the coins. There's your mistake. Letting the government take possession of them in the first place. Even if the Supreme Court would vote that due to the government failing to follow the rules of the court, the coins are to go back to the owners, there's NOTHING that can make the government actually do it. The government has an army and a police force. We common citizens don't. The government can do whatever it wants, regardless of the law. Simple as that. |
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Even if the family ends up with the coins the government will still make millions of dollars through their sale. Firstly the family would likely get at a minimum some $30 to $40 million (being conservative) in total for the coins. Given the top tax bracket for long term capital gains on collectables is 28% thats $8.4 to $11.4 in taxes the family will owe. Then I'm sure the lawyers involved are working on a mostly contingency fee basis, so if they get 20% of the take from the family that will be taxed as income (the rate depends how the firm is set up) in addition to the taxes the auction house will owe on its profits. I think its safe to say that the government will make $10 million if they lose the case.
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
8520 Posts |
Put em in the Smithsonian. They're OUR coins and we want them back.
Oregon coin geek.....*** GO BEAVS ! ! ! ***
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
2589 Posts |
Given that there are already two examples in the smithsonian, I do believe the best course of action would be for the government to place most of them up for auction. Perhaps one or two could go to museaums on the west coast
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Let the Langbords prevail in this howling-wolves Justice Department seizure effort.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
Quote:
The U.S. Government declared any and all 1933 Double Eagles, as stolen in 1944. They were stolen simply because they said they were, with no evidence or proof. Why do we have courts? Can't the government just declare who it innocent and who is guilty, since it seems they don't need evidence or proof. Just make a declaration and that is all they need. |
|
Page 2 of 2
|
Replies: 19 / Views: 2,964 |
Page 2 of 2
|
First Page
Posted 07/04/2015 4:15 pm
