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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,446 |
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Valued Member
 United States
84 Posts |
I guess I am confused, and I have read all of the links on Machine vs Die Doubling, but if it is flat and shelf like, that is machine. But these are all clearly raised letters underneath. No shaking die could cause two raised layers one on top of each other. Perhaps I am taking the pix from the wrong angle?
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
Lets wait for coop or koinpro. John1  Edited by John1
09/30/2015 3:17 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1249 Posts |
Well I can say I normally don't look in classic coin forums for a 2011 penny but it would be easier of you could get some of that glare off the left edges of that coin . Try to difuse the light or go at a different angle. I have found turning the coin 90 degrees can make a huge difference then just use the image optimized to straighten it out after. From here it looks like I can see layer but only on the date. If a die bounces it could easily make 2 extra layers and its really tough to see if it is flat or shelflike or even if it has seperation with that much glare. I cant tell wth those pictures maybe coop can. I would still reccomend trying to get the glare out of the photos
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
Can you try to post some more photos without so much light reflection? Maybe try to filter the light and keep the face of the coin square with the camera and don't resize the photos.
I don't think it is a doubled die, but other photos may help.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5828 Posts |
Im thinking MD, to.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
84 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
84 Posts |
Just a general observation: Machine Doubling is such a joke of a misnomer. I had to test my theory and see how people follow in herds and use "MD" constantly when looking at coins. A while back, I sent images off a guys site who was selling Doubled Dies... a well known fella EVERYONE knows. I sent those images to him, the site owner, and I asked if he was interested. He immediately threw the "MD" line at me. "Nope....those are Machine doubled....considered damage...." the whole enchilada folks use. Then I told him it was HIS OWN coin he said was a DDO on his site. LOL. Boy did he squirm!!Yes, MD exists, but I think MD is a code word for "I don't know" sometimes, and using it makes people feel special or prevent over-population of a coin they own or are selling. The industry might need to take a look at the definition and usage. Just my first-hand on the ground/in the trenches experience. Edited by RobRobyn
10/02/2015 02:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5964 Posts |
Quote:Just a general observation: Machine Doubling is such a joke of a misnomer. I had to test my theory and see how people follow in herds and use "MD" constantly when looking at coins. A while back, I sent images off a guys site who was selling Doubled Dies... a well known fella EVERYONE knows. I sent those images to him, the site owner, and I asked if he was interested. He immediately threw the "MD" line at me. "Nope....those are Machine doubled....considered damage...." the whole enchilada folks use. Then I told him it was HIS OWN coin he said was a DDO on his site. LOL. Boy did he squirm!! Yes, MD exists, but I think MD is a code word for "I don't know" sometimes, and using it makes people feel special or prevent over-population of a coin they own or are selling. The industry might need to take a look at the definition and usage. Just my first-hand on the ground/in the trenches experience. I can see you are struggling with MD, here is a picture you can study.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3463 Posts |
There is a very clear difference between a machine doubled coin and a doubled die. To a seasoned collector, they don't even look alike. For some reason, newer collectors have a hard time seeing the difference. When someone posts a photo of a coin taken from an angle or one that exhibits so much reflection it is impossible to see clearly, people looking at it can only assume the poster sees something that they can't. Mechanical/machine doubling and doubled die are synonymous on ebay. If you don't know what you are bidding on, don't bid on it. You can't use ebay coins as an example of anything useful. I don't see Machine Doubling or a doubled die in your photos. What exactly do you think you see? Edited by cwb
10/02/2015 05:23 am
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Valued Member
United States
452 Posts |
I don't think it's MD or doubling. It's just light and reflection.
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Moderator
United States
56855 Posts |
RobRobyn, So is the coin you posted yours? Do you think it's a DDO or MD? John1 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
62064 Posts |
It looks like a case of very mild machine damage. The light at the right angle shows it. Hub doubling is on the die, not something that happens during the strike. You can have hub doubling and machine damage on the same coin.  (note how the machine damage reduces the size of the hub doubling) When the machine get very loose, then it can really make doubling in various direction. But I just view these as event coins. Nothing special to me as they are very common. On larger coins it is easier to find MD easier than you can find a normal coin without the MD. But on your coin, the size of the devices are normal with a slight bit of MD. Only when you have the light set at a certain angle you can see it. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1249 Posts |
For future coins whatever you did on that last photo shows the coin perfectly
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1249 Posts |
I do agree somewhat with rob Robyn about how loosely the term MD is thrown around by some users. I have posted coins and yes in the beginning alot where MD. That just goes with the learning curve but I have posted others and seen other posts where there is clearly No MD and for some reason that was thrown in there. Most of the time when I see it used wrong is usually people under 250 posts. Now that's not always the case but just like reading feedback make sure the advice you looking at is from a seasoned person. I personally have 5 or so people who I hold on a higher tier than the rest while I consider everyone's opinion in my quest for knowledge. I do value some more than others. Just remember don't get frustrated it is a learning process.
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Posted 09/30/2015 1:14 pm
