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Pair Of Black Beauty Jefferson's

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Bedrock of the Community
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11951 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2015  09:12 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list

Quote:
Cool. I have a '59 in an ANACS holder - MS65 is a nice grade
.

Cool ... feel free to post any slabbed pictures if you have them.

It seems these have evolved as far as what caused these coins
to be darker. There is a improperly annealed error and a
improper alloy mix. I have seen ANACS slabs with both labels.

Going by memory, I think I have read that Improper alloy mix had silica or to much silica mixed in, that caused them to turn dark. If I am wrong on this .. I am sure a expert
will correct it.

I also seem to remember reading that these occurred more often
in the mid to late 50's, with some into the 60's.

For me these are a part of me having a complete Jefferson
set. I still need some of the early reverse change nickels,
or at least have them identified in my collection.

And of course the No "S" proof nickel.
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 Posted 10/29/2015  09:47 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
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Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 10/29/2015  11:43 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
Thanks Cascade

That is a good write up (link)
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 10/29/2015  2:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BadThad to your friends list
NICE!
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 Posted 10/29/2015  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Biedercoins to your friends list

Jefferson nickels don't get the respect they deserve, IMHO. Black beauties are a case I've heard some conflicting information in the forum. For example, I heard from one member that to be considered BBs they had to be 55's. Now I'm seeing that isn't the case. I also didn't realize there was more than one chemical path/process to end up with a BB. Should the annealed-type specimens be considered true BBs or something else?

Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 10/29/2015  4:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list

Quote:
Should the annealed-type specimens be considered true BBs or something else?


I have seen them both labeled Black Beauty

Here is a link to one

http://www.collectorsalliance.com/1..._p/20341.htm

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 Posted 10/29/2015  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mikediamond to your friends list
The slab label is wrong in that this is not an "improper alloy mix" error. It's an improper annealing error. Excess heat or prolonged exposure to heat in the annealing drum causes copper atoms to migrate to the surface. This can produce colors ranging from black to gray to brown to bright copper.
Error coin writer and researcher.
Bedrock of the Community
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11951 Posts
 Posted 10/29/2015  11:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
I have seen ANACS have both labels.

Knowing this, I think they have a good reason why they think
this is the correct label.

I have no problem with the label
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 Posted 10/30/2015  12:20 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Chronoswiss to your friends list
Interesting coins. Learn something new everyday.
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 Posted 10/30/2015  10:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Mike, do you have any information on the years known for BB nickels? Or rarity? I'm guessing it can happen with any year but some or more common than others. There's a misnomer out there that only 59 nickels are black beauties but from your analysis that seems like saying "grandma only burned the cake in 59 and all birthdays since and before we're good"
Edited by Cascade
10/30/2015 10:49 am
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 Posted 10/30/2015  2:25 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add T-BOP to your friends list
Yeah Mike , I'd like to know too if 1959 is the only year for true BB's ? Like I said previously , I have one or two rolls of 1959-P black Jefferson nickels that I picked up a long time ago.
Bedrock of the Community
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 Posted 10/30/2015  3:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
Not sure why some collectors would not believe a major TPG.

What expert would it take, for some to agree on these Black Beauty nickels?

For example, what if I said that 1959 was not the most common year
for Black Beauty nickel, in fact they are less common for 1959.
Edited by GR58
10/30/2015 3:32 pm
Bedrock of the Community
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11951 Posts
 Posted 10/30/2015  5:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
This is one of those cases where it is suggested to get the
book before you buy the coins. ( and read the book)

When I was doing my Jefferson nickel sets, I tried to read
as much as I could. Below is one of the books I was advised
get.

Pair-Of-Black-Beauty-Jefferson's

On pages 175 and 176, Q. David Bowers quotes Bernard
Nagengast's book, The Jefferson nickel Analyst. A very
good book if you are going to do full step Nickels.

The book states
"Dark Philadelphia coins seems to have sporadically
appeared after 1945, as I have seen examples from 1946,
1948 and 1949. However dark coins from 1946 through
1950 are uncommon. The situation began to change in
1951, when many more dark nickels appear to have been
released. After 1951, the situation got generally worse.

Much of the 1952, 1953 and 1954 issues are dark. In 1955
things sunk to a new low, and virtually all of the 1955
Philadelphia coins have a darkish cast. For some reason,
1956 saw a sudden improvement, since most 1956 nickels are
brilliant. ... Philadelphia Mint returned to whatever it
had been doing before, resulting in steady deterioration of
quality in 1957 and 1958.

In 1959, bright coins became more prevalent. After the mint
apparently solved its dark coin problem, for I have never seen any dark nickels after 1959."

In the next paragraph
"the Philadelphia Mint did such a uniformly good job in producing black nickels in 1958,
that some enterprising coin dealers promoted the coins as "Black Beauties."
These coins have a certain eye-appeal, being uniformly
glossy or satiny black. There are some 1959 black beauties
as well, but they are much less common."

This information comes from two well known experts.

Of course I would be open to hearing other information,
if it comes from another well know expert.
Edited by GR58
10/30/2015 6:03 pm
Pillar of the Community
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 Posted 10/30/2015  6:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Cascade to your friends list
Well I guess tbop is happy right about now
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