Motto Or No Motto?

Motto for me ... IMHO, Beauty & History surpass barren fields. The heavenly motto first appeared when our country was torn asunder by the Civil War. The motto's being framed in a floating ribbon above the eagle says a lot and adds beauty of design, methinks.

Actually, JBuck ... I LOVE the motto!!

I like the coins with E Pluribus Unum but don't like to see religious motto's on coins. (Firstly I thought the idea of separating church and state should disallow the main language of the USA (money) to have religious script on them, but also I feel it validates a superstitious idea)

It would be different in a country that is officially religious, like the UK, but here no such remarks are made despite no amendment forbidding it.

Stylistically I would say that the coins look empty without the motto, and E pluribus Unum to me is declaring unity rather than the idea of god (which seems largely to bring about division)

This is said without malice, just my personal opinion.... I love one motto and hate the other; so no box for me to tick on the poll.

DavidUK ... U.S. coins and tokens dating back to the 1600's acknowledge God. This country was rooted in a quest for religious freedom. The Declaration of Independence begins with an acknowledgement of God, the Creator. Mention of the "separation of church and state" was intended to keep the state out of the church and not the other way around!

Religion is not superstition as it is founded in factual or historic evidence as opposed to fanciful belief. U.S. coins aren't then expressing superstition, as the motto is steeped in history, both Christian and American, my friend.

"NEW ENGLAND : AN DOM" translates to "New England in the year of our Lord" - 1652 (Pine Tree Shilling)

Come on, guys -- I purposely included examples of mottoes being added ("In God We Trust") and removed ("E Pluribus Unum") so this didn't turn into an argument as to whether U.S. coins should bear religious language or not. We already have a (rather long-winded) discussion of religious beliefs in a different forum and this discussion is really to find out whether people prefer wide open fields or mottoes covering up those fields from a purely stylistic point of view.

I definitely prefer the St Gauden's Double Eagle with the motto. The text above and below the flying eagle gives a more balanced design.
The reverse design is not as well balanced with it missing, with just the rather heavy two circumferential lines of text above the flying eagle and no text at all below.

The motto 'IN GOD WE TRUST' at least, the illusion that The United States of America is a God loving country.
That is important in a time of radicalisation, and should be on all coins of the U.S.A.

As to Barry's original question, my "argument" as you say is based on historical fact. The pic of the Pine Tree Shilling has a motto, too. There's precedence. Design-wise, there are probably those who nowadays would prefer to see a version excluding that motto, as well. I would however question their motives as to why. Just as the flying "Godly" ribbon above the American eagle conveys a historic concept, a nation under God, the "AN DOM" motto does, too. The placement of these mottoes on coins amounts to far more than spatial consideration.

I must admit though that, as an American of British descent and a lover of this country, I cannot stand by and see someone distort American history. Such misinformation should be challenged. Isn't that what the forum is about ... open discussion? Our coinage, official and unofficial, from Pine Tree shillings on, is history in our hands.

I agree with David on one point ... Religious freedom does encompass freedom from religion. That said, the Pine Tree Shilling, made in 1652, the year of our Lord, was clearly not made by atheists. That's a fact, Jack. Two hundred years later, our founding fathers acknowledged our Creator in the Declaration of Independence - fact! I'm not arguing or preaching, just stating fact here.

Once again a good topic is ruined by discussing religion.