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Impact Of High Silver Spot On Pre 1967 Silver Coins.

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
Yes the RCM has that covered with their bullion ETF as an example, but during the last silver boom and to a lesser degree a few dealer still buy pre 67 coins for silver value only and during the peak most dealers were just dropping mainly common date silver dollars into 5 gallon pails strait to a refiner. One would think eventually even common dates will be hard to find but most dealers still gets a continuous supply even in today's prices. As in the ms 63 examples there is little or no demand for a 49 dollar but a 48 ms63 is always in demand at a certain price, you just don't see too many being offered.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
514 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  12:00 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add unruhjonny to your friends list

Quote:
I thought it is illegal to melt Canada or US coins.

As it was explained to me, it is illegal to deface Canadian coins in Canada, and it is illegal to deface American coins in the United States;
The get around is melting coins on the opposite side of the 49th than where they were originally minted.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list

Quote:

As it was explained to me, it is illegal to deface Canadian coins in Canada, and it is illegal to deface American coins in the United States;
The get around is melting coins on the opposite side of the 49th than where they were originally minted.



Your source is unreliable. If that were so, ask them WHO do they suppose has the higher authority beyond respective governments to make melting of silver in Canada and the US illegal that would require this devious cross-border strategy in order to circumvent?

Read some of the tabs on RCM's own website pertaining to either their bullion segment or their Alloy Recovery Program (ARP).



Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
It's also not true that it's illegal to deface coins.

Section 7(2) - Defaced coins not current
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/...-1.html#s-8.

What that means is defaced coins can be deemed worthless and surely anyone who chooses to do so would realize that?

Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/12/2016  1:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list

Quote:
. Yes the RCM has that covered with their bullion ETF as an example, but during the last silver boom and to a lesser degree a few dealer still buy pre 67 coins for silver value only and during the peak most dealers were just dropping mainly common date silver dollars into 5 gallon pails strait to a refiner. One would think eventually even common dates will be hard to find but most dealers still gets a continuous supply even in today's prices.


I strongly suspect - Infact I'd bet a whole bucket of old silver if there was a way of proving it but there's not - but I strongly suspect a lot of the best old coin that was sold for melt never saw the melting pot. It was culled and resold back into the collector market. The rare and best examples have always been worth more than melt and the operations of any refinery would have to be awfully stupid to not cull to further increase profits.

The other reason I think so is that a staggering amount of people that I've talked to even at present are still under the false impression that the only value to silver coin above face is it's silver content. Notice the kijiji ads offering to pay a flat silver value per denomination? If that belief remains today, it certainly was more commonplace years ago as people were hauling off stashes of grandpa's collection, saved from circulated coin in his day, smiling because suddenly they discovered that each old but shiney coin was suddenly worth dollars because they noticed a full page ad in the paper or got a mailbox drop about some outfit setting up shop for the weekend, literally begging them to sell that silver!
Edited by wildflowerAB
01/12/2016 1:07 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1751 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  03:04 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pocket change 50 to your friends list
Wow glad I posted the question. Common sense was telling me that as the supply shrinks, demand should go up. however, I am reading that demand has been static, very interesting. On the bullion forums I read so many people who are buying junk coins, hoping to make money when silver rises. Boy do they have it wrong according to this. The more I read the more questions I have.

Striking Impressions is an excellent book. I bought a copy a couple years ago for $5. It was a riveting read. I will need to reread it again, as I forgot half of it. The mint and employees sure faced some hard challenges. Plus to think early pre Canada used all sorts of foreign currency. The stuff on early silver and crossing borders was very interesting. Is there another book on mint history that picks up were Striking Impressions leaves off. I highly recommend this book to anyone interested in the history of Canadian money.
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Canada
3733 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  5:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add silverwolf to your friends list
the gold/silver dealer that I know is personally responsible for 100's of thousand of face dollars going to the melt pot, they ship it to the canada mint, who refine it and he gets a gold/ silver credit on his pool account.. yes I would surmise that of the 1960's dimes, quarters,halfs, and dollars. more has been melted than is still out there..but remember there were millions on top of millions of all these coins minted..
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1984 Posts
 Posted 01/13/2016  9:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Smallcentguy to your friends list
While there are obviously a whole lot of small cents still lying around, I wonder how many have been melted over the last few years since minting ceased. With copper at $2 those hoarding them for copper value may decide it is not worth the hassle and investment.

I am personally doing a major cull and have a very large bag ready to go to the TD counting machine (and on to the ARP I assume). Some may disagree, but I think I am doing the hobby a favour by withdrawing bulk common coins from the market. All I am saving are George VI cents and some red Elizabeths and varieties. That being said, given the billions of cents that are out there, I suspect it will take a while for the supply to be meaningfully reduced.

It would be nice to know what has been melted in the ARP. Anyone else been culling their cents?
Edited by Smallcentguy
01/13/2016 9:55 pm
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Learn More...
Canada
5395 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2016  12:19 pm  Show Profile   Check Pacificoin's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Pacificoin to your friends list
Even with all the melting and destruction of our past coinage , I am sure that there will always be a ready supply of most everything in the Charlton catalogue, for future generations to collect including the rarities.
It is still a surprise to see what is out there and where it comes from. Sure most of the stuff offered is quite common and was collected out of pocket change back in the day. However doing a buy you still get surprised.
For example look at the recent post on the BU roll of 1943 BU cents featured on our forum, or the Landon hoard that was the talk of the coin community last year. As a personal experience over the last two years, I have purchased two major hoards of
Original rolls and quantities of most dates and denominations of George VI and EIIR from 1937 to 1964. These came from different long time holdings and it is a treat to have the opportunity to examine quantities of original material.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/14/2016  12:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list

Quote:


I am personally doing a major cull and have a very large bag ready to go to the TD counting machine (and on to the ARP I assume). Some may disagree, but I think I am doing the hobby a favour by withdrawing bulk common coins from the market. All I am saving are George VI cents and some red Elizabeths and varieties.


I recently did the same. The bank where I deal gave me plastic bags to fill loose, up to the line is deemed $25 worth. However I couldn't help myself and asked "sooooo.....what happens with these pennies" and this is now the second time, second branch pertaining to junk non-silver coin in the recent past where the response has been "there's a guy who collects coins, we call him up.....". I don't really want to know that as, sadly, I suspect my noble contribution to ARP may have been unsuccessful.
Edited by wildflowerAB
01/14/2016 8:53 pm
Bedrock of the Community
United States
11951 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  12:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GR58 to your friends list
I have really enjoyed reading all your opinions on this
topic.

I hope it is OK to add a couple points.

I live in Florida, and work for a family that has two local
coin shops. The shops buy a good amount of foreign silver,
pre 1967 Canadian silver coins being the dominate amount
of coins thrown into the foreign silver bucket.

When the bucket gets enough value, the coins are taken
to be melted. My guess would be every month or so.

There will be coins of every denomination going back to
Queen Victoria. From low grade coins to cut up mint sets.

I feel this happens in most coin shop all over the
United States. At some point it could have a impact on
availability of common silver coins, but maybe not in my
lifetime.

Also, it is legal in the United State, to melt old U.S.
silver coins. But it is not legal to melt nickels and
cents.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  10:56 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
GR, thanks for sharing that.

I vaguely recall well into the '70s it was virtually a Canadian pastime for everyone to pull each and every silver coin out of circulation because it was widely known that silver had a higher value. All those saved stashes resulted in a huge oversupply to the collector market, it would be no different if today every coin minted prior to 2015 for some reason suddenly became collectable. That a lot of that silver excess, lower grade, mass produced sets eventually still finds it's way to the melting pot is a good thing because there's still an oversupply especially in the '60s when hundreds of millions were minted.
Edited by wildflowerAB
01/15/2016 10:57 am
Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add john100 to your friends list
There is also a few wise persons who in 66 or later just ordered these dollars from banks for face and hoarded them till today, there was just so much minted.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  12:36 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
You've given me an idea that I'm thinking about.
Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts
 Posted 01/15/2016  12:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ace_ftw to your friends list
I would say that most if not all of the people who were around in 1966 and were actually old enough to a) know what was going to happen and b) who were financially capable of socking away a ton of money, are likely at this point deceased being 75 or older (assuming an age of 25 @ 1966).

they most likely sold in the early 80's.

I don't think many people are sitting on hoards that have been in the closet for the past 50 years. These hoards would have been sold or divided between the heirs over the last few decades.
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