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Pillar of the Community
Canada
818 Posts |
Quote:
So you stuck someone else with a damaged coin without disclosing it and now want to make sure they can't get their money back out of it? Not terribly sporting of you. yes |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
Wildflower, I think people buy what they like. The interesting thing is the buyer at the coin show maybe cherry picked a coin from a kid- a ms62 sold for 215 on ebay. the nature of a seller is not to talk negatively about the unit being sold, though it's in the buyer's nature to scrutinize, and the price difference is rightfully always in favour of the one that is being approached, be it the buyer or seller. for whatever reason, could be a ding mark, belief that it may have been cleaned, coin collectors focus in on one tiny thing and can't get it out of their heads, and it doesn't fit in their collection and off it goes. I don't think the collector sellers out there that send back for regrades or cross grades without telling a later buyer about the lower grades and grading history are unscrupulous. I think there's some sort of lesson here, though I m not sure what. Regardless, there is no harm in someone buying the coin for 120$ from what I see, it's a nice coin, but that's me I like toned coins. First thing I'd do is cut it out. One man's trash is another's treasure. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
7096 Posts |
I have bought cleaned, damaged and even counterfeit coins over the years and I STILL have them chucked in a box somewhere  I am not a believer in getting some other collector to pay for my mistakes by selling this garbage, this is possibly why these were sold to me in the first place. Time for everyone to "Man Up" and take responsibility for the bad buying decisions we make and stop fobbing them off on someone else and let the buck stop there  The practice of selling questionable coins without disclosure is unconscionable and deceitful and everyone hates to be on the receiving end of such a deal.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
I've met dollarman and he is an honest enthusiastic, yet young, collector. I agree with others who say that his choice of words just wasn't quite appropriate but I don't see how he misled or cheated anyone. He had a coin that said 62 that he thought wasn't right(too high) and lacked proper "remarks" on the holder. The person who he sold it to bought the holder, not the coin.... a terrible habit that happens all to often to those who buy certified coins. The buyer had every opportunity to see the scratch, uneven toning, and possible cleaning, yet ignored it and bought the piece of plastic that says MS-62. Now that dollarman has talked to a few folks on here and knows them via the site, he didn't want anyone to get the dirty end of the stick somewhere down the road. Good for you, dollarman, for warning fellow members out there.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
4911 Posts |
thanks for the kind and helpful words from some of you  Quote:
If you 'had to get your money out' of a coin you were selling to someone on this chat forum, would you be upfront and honest or act like you did at the Polish coin show?
i would never do that to this forum's members and I have never sold a problem coin knowingly to someone with out disclosing it...at that time that I sold the coin I really needed the money, I was almost broke because of the coin. $120 is a lot of money for a 15 year old  i thought I would try and help but I see that I have hurt some people and many see me as a "bad guy" in our hobby...i am sorry and I hope to regain my reputation, I am a nice guy  Feel free to call me Will.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5394 Posts |
Dollarman , it is all a learning experience. You are ok by me. Young collectors are the future of the hobby and are to be encouraged , not discouraged.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2495 Posts |
The Dollarman.......I can be very judgmental on these chat forums.
I didn't realize your young age (I'm 56).
I do believe your intentions were honourable.
My son is 24 and my advice to him would be the same to you and that is it's very important to always learn from your mistakes because mistakes always happen even when your my age!
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
 with Pacifcoin! Life's a learning journey and owing to your cyber-lashing and as a younger collector, consider that you've been given a good opportunity to see other points of view! I'm still curious why it was graded MS62 by ICCS if it was that bad, or as others have mentioned, was it an accurate net grade? Edited by wildflowerAB
01/15/2016 10:38 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
You know in a way ICCS is to blame for their odd grading system of allowing a grade for problem coin like a ms 64 dollar that was noted harshly cleaned on the label that I got a little grief over previously. If they followed PCGS or NGC with detailed or can't think of the other grader's term for a problem coin with no numeric grade, one would not have this problem.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
Its just one of those coins that will continue to circulate amongst people who buy the holder not the coin.
I traded with Dollarman a couple years ago, I felt obligated to send him an additional coin (which I did) because he was overly fair with me, in my opinion.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Looks like he sold it to a full time dealer, he should know better.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
John yes that is an excellent point.
It's actually rather baffling that in Canada a seller is accountable for questionable ICCS grading, yet that grade heavily influences the price range of it's value. Seems to be it's an conflicting issue that's harmful to the hobby in general. It's not a good thing when the average collector who is not an grading expert can't rely on the opinion of paid professionals, particularly MS grades where the value really begins to swing upward.
Another aspect - that of tracking and selling values. Using this 1946 MS62 as an example, it's low selling price is tracked as it gets tossed from buyer to buyer. Each time it's record is included in selling price stats (ie Trend/EBay) that negatively impacts the value of every other 1946 MS62. There's something very wrong with that and I can't help but wonder the degree of substandard grading impact to coin values in general.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1285 Posts |
dollarman wrote: Quote:
i would never do that to this forum's members and I have never sold a problem coin knowingly to someone with out disclosing it...at that time that I sold the coin I really needed the money, I was almost broke because of the coin. $120 is a lot of money for a 15 year old
i thought I would try and help but I see that I have hurt some people and many see me as a "bad guy" in our hobby...i am sorry and I hope to regain my reputation, I am a nice guy Okay, I'm going to tone down my disappointment because I have "been there" and know the helplessness one feels. However, dollarman character is forged in the fire of adversity; self-respect is essential as you grow and mature into adulthood. Always remember that your word counts for everything. With all that said I'm more than willing that we move on. Fair enough?
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1223 Posts |
I read all this and can't believe the sanctimonious crap in some post. I've seen many coins that have been graded on this site as been cleaned and later see the same coins on ebay for sale with no mentioning of known cleaning. I've never gone to a coin show and had a dealer tell me I shouldn't buy this coin or that coin because he thinks it's cleaned or improperly graded. Put yourself at a coin show looking at this coin and some 16 year old looks over your shoulder and tells you he thinks the coin is cleaned. I'm sure most would just ignore the advice anyway....after all you've been collecting for 40 years and see no problem and ICCS see no problem... get out of here kid. Dollarman is a excellent student of numismatics and is very knowledgeable at a very young age. I know I respect his comments and contribution to this forum and I see no wrong done here at all. When you do buy a coin that you don't like you sell it to someone that does like it, this is the way it's always been and the way it always will be. It seems like a considerate gesture has been turned into something evil. Cheers, Bill |
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Moderator
Canada
10458 Posts |
Quote:
Question is did you alert the new buyer of the defect before selling it? If not then shame on you. Quote:
So you stuck someone else with a damaged coin without disclosing it and now want to make sure they can't get their money back out of it? Not terribly sporting of you.  You know, I have been watching this thread since its beginning... the real issue here is ICCS assigning a grade to a problem coin, or "net grading" it. This whole thread should have ended with Pokermandude's excellent post on page one. Your scorning comments are addressed to a young numismatist (whom I have met and dealt with) selling a coin to a dealer. I have NEVER, at ANY show, have a dealer disclose issues with me when viewing coins with potential problems (especially when ICCS has graded it without issue). Usually, they want to debate with me, and state that, "Nothing is wrong with the coin, and the ICCS holder proves it." In this hobby, it is the responsibility of the buyer to scrutinize the coin (and not the holder). That is why we stress so much about learning how to examine coins that have been tampered with, and learning out to grade yourself. I have sold problem coins both raw (labelled as having problems) as well as NGC and PCGS "details" holders at deep discounts out of my "Junk Bin", only to see the same coins reappear comment-free in ICCS holders at a future dealers table... do you really think the seller/dealer in those cases cares about being "sporting"? This young man is a exemplary collector, and brought the attention of a problem coin, otherwise not labelled, to other collectors, who may purchase ICCS coins sight unseen. Nothing more. Take your witch hunt elsewhere.  "Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert OppenheimerContent of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_USMy eBay store
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Posted 01/15/2016 02:46 am
