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In What Years Were The Canada Specimen Sets Made?

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Canada
10459 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2016  2:11 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
This auction, had an example of a burnished planchet used for PL strikes.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Three-types-...262229869806
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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United States
190 Posts
 Posted 02/10/2016  6:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
Well, I tried about three different ways to post my list, but I cannot get it to post right. Here is what I have on my list long hand...

Business Strike: 1920 to 1929, 1929 (High 9), 1930 to 1947, 1947 (ML with B7, 1947 (ML with P7), 1948 (Sm. Denticles), 1948 (A points to Lg. Denticles), 1948 (A points between Lg. Denticles), 1949 (A points to Lg. Denticles), 1949 (A points between Lg. Denticles), 1950 to 1952, 1953 (NSF), 1953 (SF), 1954 (SF), 1955 (SF with Sm. Denticles), 1955 (SF with Lg. Denticles), 1955 (NSF), 1956 to 1964, 1965 (Varieties 1, 2, 3, and 4), 1966 to 1982, 1983 (Near to Rim Beads), 1983 (Far from Rim Beads), 1984, 1985 (BP), 1985 (P5), 1986 to 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2002-P, 2003 (Old Effigy), 2003 (New Effigy), 2003-P (Old Effigy), 2003-P (New Effigy), 2004, 2004-P, 2005, 2005-P, 2006 (Zinc, No Logo), 2006 (Steel, No P & No Logo), 2006 (Zinc, Logo), 2006-P (Zinc), 2006-P (Steel). 2007 (Steel), 2008 (Steel), 2009 (Zinc), 2009 (Steel), 2010 (Zinc), 2011 (Zinc), 2011 (steel), 2012 (Zinc), and 2012 (Steel).

Proof-Like/NBU Strike in Cellophane from Mint sets: 1953 (SF), 1954 (SF), 1954 (NSF), 1955 (SF and Lg. Denticles), 1956 1964, 1965 (All four varieties), 1966 to 1982, 1983 (both varieties), 1985 to 1995, 1996 (Satin Finish), 1997 (Satin Finish), 1998, 1998-W, 1999, 1999-P, 2000-W, 2000-P, 2001-P, 2002-P, 2003-P (Old Effigy), 2003-WP, 2004-P, 2005-P (Zinc), 2005-P (Steel), 2006 (Steel, Logo), 2006-P, 2007 (Zinc), 2007 (Steel), 2008 (Steel), 2009 (Steel), 2010 (Zinc), 2010 (Steel), 2011 (Zinc), 2011 (Steel), 2012 (Zinc), and 2012 (Steel).

Specimen Strike from Deluxe/Specimen Sets (PL): 1920 to 1932, 1934, 1937, 1937 (Matte), 1938, 1944 to 1946, 1947 (All three Varieties), 1948 (A Points to Lg. Denticles), 1949 (A Points to Lg. Denticles), 1950 to 1952, 1953 (both types), 1964, 1965 (Sm. Beads and Pointed 5), 1965 (Sm. Beads and Blunt 5), 1967 to 1982, 1983 (both), 1984 to 1995.

Specimen Strike with Satin Finish: 1996 to 2000, 2001-P, 2002-P, 2003-P (Old Effigy), 2004-P to 2006-P, 2007 (Steel only) to 2012 (steel only).

Antique Finish: 1998, I put this with the SP coins.

Proof (Always copper): 1981, 1982, 1983 (Both), 1984 to 1998, 1998 (Large Cent), 1999 to 2002 (No P or W), 2003 (1953-2003), 2003(Old Effigy), 2003 (Annual Report), 2004 to 2009, 2010 (1935-2010), 2010, 2011 (1911-2011 Large Cent), 2011, 2012, 2012 (Silver), and 2012 (Silver) Five coin set.

This is my list that I am using. If anything is incorrect, please let me know. Thanks.

Edited by pasasap
02/10/2016 6:11 pm
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190 Posts
 Posted 02/11/2016  5:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
SPP-Ottawa,

Thanks you. I was not aware there were three different methods for PL strikes. Yes, you are collecting exactly the same way I am attempting to collect.

It seems that I stepped into a bit of a war here. But, I am only going by what the grading companies are using for strike notations. The Canada based grading company that I see on ebay, NGC, and PCGS are all using the notations, MS, PL, SP, and PR for the different strikes. They add the term Satin for the striation pattern cents. Burnished and Matte are also terms used, but I do not think I will encounter any of those pennies as they are probably all very expensive. Also, the list I am using was not created by me, but came from someone on here. I am using it to complete the set. I also have another list of all the clashing and Machine Doubling errors that another person provided to me from this forum. They copied the information from their album. I am planning on completing that portion of my collection once I get this other list completed. I would be happy to trade Proof and SPs for errors, if anyone is interested. I have several doubles because I had to buy big lots to get discounts. I also wanted to pick the best possible quality from a nice group of coins. My set is looking really nice now. Here is what I have collected, so far.

Business Strikes: 1920 to 1924, and 1927 to 1936 are all in circulated condition. I am missing 1925, 1926, 1929 (High 9), and 1936 (dot). My 1921 is BU.

Business Strikes in BU: 1937 to 2012 are mostly Choice BU Red or better. I am missing 1948 and 1949 (A points to Large Denticles), 1955 (SF & Large Denticles), 1955 (NSF), 1965 (Variety 4), and most of the clashing die error coins. 1937, 1948, and 1952 are BU Red/Brown. 1953 (SF) is circulated. 1941 to 1946 are also circulated. I am attempting to get everything from 1937 to 2012 in BU Red, but some may just be too expensive. I also have the 2006 (No P and No Logo) "Steel" or Magnetic, which is the error coin.

PL from Mint Sets (1953 to 2012): My list says these did not come into existence until 1953 with the 1953 (SF) coin. I have in my set 1958 to 2012. Some of the varieties in the 2000's are not found in PL sets according to the list. My list says that 1985 (P5) only exist as a Business Strike, which I have in the set. My list says that the 1983 (Far and Near Beads) exist in all four categories. I am missing Far Beads for PL, SP, and PR. I have both 1983 Varieties in BU Business Strikes. I am also missing 1965 (V1, V3, and V4) in PL. For 1996 and 1997, the sets came with Satin Finish SP Strikes, so I added them to the PL category, which represents all coins coming from Regular Mint Sets. I am also missing the 2004 Test Set Penny, but I have the 1999-P.

Specimen Set Coins (SP): I am not collecting any of the coins before 1952; although, there is a 1950 on ebay for $60. I lucked out and got a 1953 (NSF) Specimen Strike in a lot I purchased off of ebay. Other than that one, I do not have anymore until 1965. My list shows the SPs ending in 1953, and then starting up again in 1964. There is a 1964 SP posted on ebay for sale. The list says that 1965 (V1 and V2) are available in SP, but not (V3 or V4). I have is the 1965 (V2) in PL, but I am not 100% positive that it is an SP strike although it was sold as an SP. I have 1967 that I saw the dealer take from the Deluxe set, so I know it is an SP. I may also have 1968, but it was an ebay purchase just like the 1965. I have 1973 to 1995 with the PL finish from SP sets (deluxe sets) minus the 1983 (Far Beads). I have 1996 to 2012-P with the Satin Finish. I put the 1998 Large Cent with the Antique Finish in this section with the SP group.

For Proof, I have 1981 to 2007 minus the 1983 (Far Beads). I have 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2012 in silver. I am missing only 2008, 2009, 2010 (1935-2010, Special Edition Small Cent) and 2011 (1911-2011, Special Edition Large Cent). I put the Copper plated silver 1998 Large Cent in Proof here too.

So, you see, if the list is correct, I almost have collected what I can except for the clashing errors, which are next on my agenda. Most of the errors are listed for $1 or $2 on ebay, so it should not take too long to get what I can afford. If anyone needs Proof (1981 to 2005) or PL or SP, let me know. I would probably trade most of extras for error coins. A one to one trade should be fair in most cases. All errors must be in Choice/Gem BU Red or Choice/Gem PL Red similar to my coins. I have mostly extra proof and Specimen from 1973 to 2005. I have a few Mint Set PLs, but not many; however, a few are still in Cellophane.

I put the pennies in coin capsules, and then put the capsules into Mylar Cardboard flips. I then write the information on the cardboard and place the coins in pages in a collector's binder. I like this way better than the albums. I also feel the coins are better protected in the capsules.

Well, that is all I have left to say. If you guys could look at my list and make sure it is correct, then that would be very helpful to me. Thank you for your help. :)
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190 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2016  12:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
Just so I am clear here about what was being said. Are some of you saying the PL from the Regular Mint Sets in Cellophane in the envelopes are the same as those coming from the Deluxe Specimen Sets? Some of the dealers on ebay claim the PLs are the same, but then they say they do not know where the coins are coming from exactly. I was thinking that they were just trying to make a sell. Other dealers have told me that the strikes are different as I have described already. NGC and PCGS are using the terms MS, PL, SP, SP Satin Finish, and PR to separate the different strikes on slabs. Is it true these are all different strikes or is there some argument against this idea? For instance, the MS or Business Strikes, I have heard repeatedly are the same as the PL from Mint Sets. But, I see that some disagree with this notion and have explained very clearly why they are different. I tend to think they are different for the simple fact that they look different, so that is why I am collecting both types. However, I also am collecting both PL and SP because I was told they are different and also the grading companies separate them. Collecting US Lincoln Cents is much easier because we only have three strikes, MS, PR, and MS Satin Finish (2005 to 2010 "only from Mint Sets").
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10459 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2016  12:40 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list

Quote:
Are some of you saying the PL from the Regular Mint Sets in Cellophane in the envelopes are the same as those coming from the Deluxe Specimen Sets?


Absolutely not!! The first are PL strikes, the latter are specimen strikes...
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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 Posted 02/12/2016  12:52 pm  Show Profile   Check SPP-Ottawa's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add SPP-Ottawa to your friends list
You can't use NGC and PCGS as the "standards" if you intend to collect these series of coins.

NGC and PCGS grade according to the finish and strike characteristics of the coin. Take this one for example (we fully know that proof coins were never struck in 1967). This is a specimen strike, with brand new dies:

http://www.PCGS.com/cert/29926600

The Charlton catalogue separates these coins according to the striking process. Each coin type was struck differently, either using special planchets or slower, higher pressure presses.

I have a 1967 1c, graded PCGS PR-67... PCGS calls it proof, but that I know is a superior specimen strike - see the difference? PCGS has also graded superior PL strikes, as SP coins... again, they grade the net result of a superior strike, and not the striking process.

Note that there are some coin varieties in your own lists, that do no exist in certain strikes. 1965 for example, you will only find Type 2 and Type 3 in PL strikes and only Type 2 in specimen strikes.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer

Content of this post is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 3.0 Unported License. See: http://creativecommons.org/licenses...0/deed.en_US

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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts
 Posted 02/12/2016  12:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add wildflowerAB to your friends list
Pasasap you may be referring to an earlier comment that I made in reference to sets not referred to as Specimen Sets, but whereby the finish came to be referred to as Specimen. Looking at my collection, the difference between for example a 1974 PL penny from an uncirculated set and a penny taken from a 1974 cased Prestige Set, is not clearly obvious to my eye. I'm not saying that to someone keener on collection such as SPP, the difference is noticeable. But I think we all agree to the advise "don't buy the packaging label, buy the coin". That the difference is apparent to you is what matters.
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 Posted 02/17/2016  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list

Quote:
"Didn't you already start a thread about this? Were the answers there not to your liking?

https://goccf.com/t/252640"
*** Edited by Staff to add quote tags. Please use them in the future. Posts are very difficult to read without them.***

I do not understand why you locked that thread out but, to answer your question, my main question was not answered at all.

I just want to know if my checklist is correct, so that I can put my Canada Small Cent collection together correctly. Nobody has answered that question and that is the main question that I am asking. Nobody has offered a checklist or made any suggestions to fixing my current checklist or verified it as being correct. There are no albums for sale that have the coins identified the way I want them, nor do albums completely protect coins in my opinion. I also have a few slabbed coins that are not going to fit in an album, and I want everything together in one place. My system is perfect for me, but I still need to know if the checklist that I am using to put the collection together is correct. That is the main purpose for all my posts as related to this subject matter.

Here are the four categories I am using to collect. Business Strikes, Mint Set Strikes (PL), Specimen Strikes (SP), and Proof Strikes (PR). PCGS, NGC, and other slabbing grading companies use the terms/notations MS, PL, SP, SP (Satin Finish), and PR on their slabs to separate the different Mint Strikes. I am using the same system to put my collection together.

So, could someone please post a complete checklist or verify my checklist. Thanks.

If you are wondering about the clashing errors and Machine Doubling errors, which are not on my checklist I have a separate checklist for those pennies. I will be working on that collection next using that checklist. I am not all that into errors, so I probably will just collect those from the checklist, and be done with it. So, that is why those coins are missing from my Checklist. Thanks. :)


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 Posted 02/17/2016  11:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
Some of your post where not showing up on my side, so I am just now reading them. Sorry. I see some of you have answered my questions. Thank you.
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190 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2016  11:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
Thanks, I am updating the list now.
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 Posted 02/17/2016  11:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
I will see if I can get a used copy of Charlton for cheap. I thought my list was made from that book, but I guess not. ;)
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190 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2016  12:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
I fixed 1965 on the checklist. It probably would be easier if you just looked at my checklist and let me know what is incorrect, but here are a few questions. Does 1929 (High 9) only exist in Business Strike? Does 1983 (Far Beads and Near Beads) exist in Business, PL, SP, and PR? I have both varieties for 1983 for Business Strikes, but I am not finding Far Beads for the other three strikes. 1985 (Pointed 5) only exist as a Business Strike, correct? Some of the 1940's and 1950's varieties might be incorrect, please check for me. I am missing these SP strikes from my collection, so I want to verify if they even exist; 1964, 1968 to 1972. My checklist says that there were no 1966 SP pennies minted, is that correct?

A quick look at my checklist to check for errors would help a lot. I do not think I need a book, but rather just a complete and correct checklist.

Thanks.
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Canada
1505 Posts
 Posted 02/17/2016  1:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add purelywasted to your friends list
It would be helpful if you posted a properly formatted checklist, even a screen shots of an excel list would be better than the longhand version you posted (too hard to read). You would really benefit from a copy of charltons, this year might be useful as it has a section on the penny and error varieties, but even an older copy on ebay would be helpful.

This site will answer most of your questions.

http://www.coinsandcanada.com/coins...nt-1965-2012
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 Posted 02/19/2016  4:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bm0ney to your friends list
Public Library
Look in Section CJ - Library of congress designation for numismatics.
Charlton.
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190 Posts
 Posted 02/20/2016  12:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pasasap to your friends list
Everybody, Thank you for your help. :)



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