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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
If someone is purchasing counterfeit coins which have been clearly marked as fake, then it should be ok...
A legal copy of legal tender is impossible. Sure, not every coin is affordable and some might want to buy a cheap copy but what does that really accomplish? It might give the outward appearance of a better collection than it really is, but is that any difference than cheating on an exam? I just don't get the interest in counterfeit whatsoever -- to my way of thinking it's mere presence is contamination to a coin collection as vile as a fast food worker spitting on a burger! What's one good reason you think it should be ok? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2632 Posts |
I can understand someone wanting 'hands on experience' when it comes to identifying fakes, in fact I can only envy the educational experience Mike M. has had being able to have many fakes in hand. His ability to recognize a fake is superior to most due to this fact. But other than that I agree "why bother and for what"?
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5589 Posts |
Just think ... if nobody bought the fakes, then the manufacturers would stop making them. For every seller, there has to be a buyer. Take away the buyers and the sellers go kaput! Counterfeiters destroy the hobby, taking away potential life-time collectors who have been burned when they see their $300 coin turn into a $5-10 piece of scrap metal. People are bilked out of millions of dollars every year because of corrupt manufacturers and, even worse, secondary sellers.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
take a minute to try to figure out how many fake Morgan dollars are in peoples collections. as fast as Bobby gets them pulled there is always handfulls that are sold before it happens. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
The same goes for all the RCM products, including NCLT and Maple Leafs. It has got to be stopped, even if in teeny tiny steps. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
I can understand someone wanting 'hands on experience' when it comes to identifying fakes, in fact I can only envy the educational experience Mike M. has had being able to have many fakes in hand. His ability to recognize a fake is superior to most due to this fact. But other than that I agree "why bother and for what"?
And for people like Mike, who educate and forewarn others to be aware of fakes to prevent them from getting ripped off, it must be absolutely infuriating if instead it increases interest, almost as if to some known fakes are some kind of rarity or variety with a rightful place alongside the real thing. As okiecoiner mentions, it's those who see nothing wrong with owning counterfeits that help to create a market, which in turn leads to the unsuspecting getting bilked because it also lures the unscrupulous looking to make a quick buck. That also results in unlimited increased mintage, the fakes are added to the supply -- harming both the value and demand of the original. A vicious circle that eventually has the potential to deter newer collectors from buying on the secondary market, which in turn destroys the hobby because existing collections become worthless due to lack of buyers. |
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Moderator
 United States
54282 Posts |
Quote:take a minute to try to figure out how many fake Morgan dollars are in peoples collections. as fast as Bobby gets them pulled there is always handfulls that are sold before it happens. The ones we have been catching lately include fake 1893-S Morgans with Buy It Now prices in the $150-$200 range. They get sold, why? No one would believe a seller could have 4 authentic multi-thousand dollar coins for sale at the same time for $200 or less apiece. As said before, the counterfeit seller is filling a demand that is out there. We don't know the motivation of the buyer paying $200 or less for a $5,000 or more coin (if it were genuine). Is it to "study" the fake? Is it to "fill a hole"? Is it to resell at a profit? Is it "greed"? Don't get me wrong, I am completely against counterfeit coins. As said before, if buyers ceased buying these fakes, there wouldn't be so many of them. Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Not quite sure of the US situation in creating the Hobbies Act, I guess lobbying by some dealers who wanted the best of both worlds sell real and copied coins. In Canada it's quite simple you can't own or sell a counterfeit.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2845 Posts |
Quote:
In Canada it's quite simple you can't own or sell a counterfeit.
Considering - RCM is virtually silent regarding prevalence of counterfeits - and they benefit if more people buy NCLT directly from the source. - it's unknown the percentage of collectors who think it should be okay, - Laws can be changed (particularly those that aren't being actively enforced). If owning counterfeits, copies or replicas is condoned by Canadian collectors, it's more apt that Canada will go the route of the US with a Hobbies Act as well. Just that there's presently a law against something, in today's world, doesn't seem to matter much... |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
And that's the other part of the equation in Canada, the RCM just doesn't seem to care, it can only be brought under control through the leadership of the RCM, not the end users. |
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
The US "HOBBY PROTECTION" Act does not allow the collection of UNMARKED counterfeit, imitation or copy coins.
The Act merely states:
Coins and other numismatic items
The manufacture in the United States, or the importation into the United States, for introduction into or distribution in commerce, or the sale in commerce of any imitation numismatic item which is not plainly and permanently marked "copy", is unlawful and is an unfair or deceptive act or practice in commerce under the Federal Trade Commission Act
---I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted under the "Hobby Protection" Act. The US Secret Service has little to no interest in counterfeit coins, and their website merely advises one who suspects that they have a counterfeit coin to "compare it to a genuine coin".
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
This is why this act just add confusion to the marketplace, with the onset of fake PCGS and NGC holders recently the TPG are trying to amend or change this act |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5589 Posts |
Mike M consulted with the US House of Representatives to even get coins mentioned in the Hobby Act and I think that it will stiffen in the future. Mind you, the coins in general have to plainly have "copy" on the coin. In regards to a comment above ... "If Canadian collectors generally condone ... ". I don't know of a single collector who condones having counterfeits and only know of unscrupulous dealers who do. It's a cancer on the hobby.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3692 Posts |
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Moderator
United States
54282 Posts |
They got involved because it was transit tokens, not because it was numismatic items.
Show your financial support of the Coin Community Family (click here)See my topic on Mexican Numismatic Medals (click here) |
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Posted 05/21/2016 01:53 am
