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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
Surprised I am by the eerie quiet and lack of comments.
I have been warning for some time about a crisis in confidence.
I personally know of one (long time) dealer who tells me he has a connection to the full BMC catalogue.
He will not spend 'real' money unless he can confirm a die match. He may just be talking out the wrong end of his alimentary canal but I take his warnings very seriously. The technology today allows for production of near perfect dies to knock off 'museum quality' merchandise.
The quiet here speaks volumes does it not ?
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Moderator
 United States
23731 Posts |
Now that's scary, It would be very difficult to tell his work from a true example. From the brief view of the finished pieces it doesn't appear that he marks them as copies.
I think the lack of responses is due to not many people being on line, it's been pretty slow around here lately.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7066 Posts |
From what I've read, Antiquanova is a legit (kosher) reproduction company (and not a seller of "fakes") that stamps its "S" shape symbol into all of its AR copies, although the symbol is sometimes hard to spot. (and not to be seen in the final coin image on the vid) Their site is here: http://www.antiquanova.com/They also make tin reproductions of ancients, without the stamp since, well, they are made of tin. Apparently, though, unscrupulous sellers have been known to remove or fill the Antiquanova symbol and pass of the "coins" as genuine. Nasty business. And, yes, scary. I think that too often collectors feel overly assured of authenticity when they note the visual clues that their coins are struck and not cast. There are indeed lots of struck fakes out there, some of very good style. Edited by Kamnaskires
08/17/2016 4:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
Not even remotely surprising that 21st century technology can reproduce what was state of the art 2,400 years ago. Must be a lot of very intensive labor, but once he got things going, I bet he could churn out a few dozen $2,000 coins in a day. Wouldn't be hard to leave them in the ground for a bit to give them that authentic look.
I do wonder how viable something like carbon dating would be to date any organics left in the nooks and crannies? Granted, silver does clean up very well.
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Moderator
United States
34442 Posts |
Quote:
I think the lack of responses is due to not many people being on line, it's been pretty slow around here lately. Yep working... @athalbert, yes interesting and certainly a watch-out. As I recall, we saw one of his products a couple weeks ago on this forum. "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
Interesting to watch the process. I have always imagined what it would take to make a coin, not as a counterfeiter as much as a guy who makes things and reverse engineers items all the time. Wouldn't mind making my own honestly, not a replica by my own design. Kind of like a modern day miser Aaron White. http://www.so-calleddollars.com/Eve..._Dollar.htmlWithout a die match I don't know how else you could authenticate a coin and even then with 3D scanners a CNC any guy in his garage could make near perfect dies. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
I suspect analysis of the composition down to the ppm might be somewhat definitive about age. If you have minute traces of (modern) radioactive isotopes you could infer a modern manufacture. Much like human teeth with traces of strontium can be ID'd as dating from the modern nuclear age. But a clever forger might make coins from worn out Alexander III tetradrachms or similar 'good' silver.
What is extremely disconcerting is that these high grade fakes need only be suitably 'distressed' (worn and abused) to easily pass as genuine.
If the opportunity to obtain an extremely rare coin (albeit low grade) occurs we are all susceptible to the desire to want it to be real.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
I know how coins are struck...theres nothing fascinating to me here...
Now if the video showed how the dies were made then my interest would be aroused because the fakes are only as good as the dies.
The reason I didn't comment is because what is there to say? Should I sell my coins fortelling doom that fakes will kill the market? Should I bury my head in the sand and confidently declare that experts will slways be able to spot a fake?
Fakes have slways existed in every field from art, antiques, watches and coins... we know that so what difference to see a video of the process in action?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
711 Posts |
Quote:
What is extremely disconcerting is that these high grade fakes need only be suitably 'distressed' (worn and abused) to easily pass as genuine.
If the opportunity to obtain an extremely rare coin (albeit low grade) occurs we are all susceptible to the desire to want it to be real. This is my concern as well. It'd be so easy to put a test cut right through his fake marking and have a nice cut up Owl for a bargain price end up on my ebay watch list. How good are this guy's dies? Is it just similar / inspired by or is he doing an exact match to a known published coin. |
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Pillar of the Community
 Spain
629 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
Spain
629 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts |
Whenever I mention to someone I collect ancients the first question they inevitably ask is "How do you know they are real?"
Modern counterfeits are the Achilles Heel of the hobby. But it's not just us. I've read of fake bullion coins and double eagles so it's an issue in other genres.
Personally I'm not a fan of these videos. All they do is improve the quality of counterfeits and make detecting them harder.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
One of our new members posted this link last week. I am reposting as I am reasonably certain the coin is fake. A beautiful fake and certainly worth something in its own right. But enough people saw what they wanted to see that the final price ended well over anything that someone with any sense of danger might consider prudent (considering the lack of certainty). High quality ! http://www.ebay.ca/itm/201644214501 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3445 Posts |
I would add that the Roman 'replicas' posted by Athalbert are quite easy to spot ....... aren't they ?
Too easy ! It is almost as if they were purposely made to be obvious.
From just a glance at the Greek replicas it can be seen that the dies were cut by an "artiste" of not inconsiderable talents.
If he/she had wanted the Romans to look real it is rather obvious they would have made them look real.
Although the Augustus has enough going for it that with some 'distressing' it would probably pass muster for more than a few near sighted numismatists !
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1194 Posts |
As Furius Rufus wrote , the Roman replicas are easy to spot , this coins look like the fake Roman coins from Bulgaria . For the Greek ones , for me there is something wrong with the style , fe : the first tetradrachm from Syracuse , the horseman is not well represented , to rigid , I don t know how to say in English . The same for the second , a didrachm of Tarentum , there is something wrong with the style , it is not fluent enough . All this coins remenber me the copies you can buy in in Athens on the street . I don t think you will ever find this coins by a good coin dealer and coins of this value are normally not selled by individuals , IMO .albert ps : for expensive coins : http://www.ebay.at/sch/m.html?_nkw=...mosch&_sop=1 |
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Posted 08/17/2016 3:26 pm
