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My 4th 4 - New Vologases IV Pickup

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 Posted 05/17/2017  9:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
I like this coin type as you know, I have several of them in my collection.
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 Posted 05/18/2017  04:38 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list
Lovely coins Bob

Especially like the first one...nice detail.

Whats the diameter of the coins?

Thanks for sharing

Paul
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 Posted 05/18/2017  08:32 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list

Quote:
Whats the diameter of the coins?


Paul, these two new ones measure 26mm and 27mm, respectively.

Thanks for the comment!
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 Posted 10/26/2019  7:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
@bob, I'm sorry to reanimate this old thread, but I recently picked up a Volo IV of my own.

As I'm researching it further, I have stumbled upon a conundrum. Specifically, I find it quite odd that while the coins in this thread can be attributed to various different years, 5/6 were minted in the same exact month (October). Mine is attributed to October 183, which seems like a pretty astronomical coincidence when coupled with your coins. Any thoughts about why this month was so prolific for the Parthian mints?
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 10/26/2019  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add augustus1 to your friends list
"Any thoughts about why this month was so prolific for the Parthian mints?"

Coins minted at the same time probably left the mint together and entered savings hoards together. Most accumulations of coins ("hoards") were utilized by their owners or their heirs in ancient times. The mint issues that entered those short-lived accumulations were well-mixed into the population of coins in antiquity. The accumulations that remained unrecovered until recently (what we now call "hoards") may have accumulated their coins over time and have a mixed sample of coins, but often hoards have one issue vastly overrepresented.

For example, there was a hoard of Gallienus coins found with 5000 coins from one pair of dies. It is not that that issue was larger than usual, just that they left the mint together were hoarded together, and were eventually found together.

I imagine that some time in the past there was found an ancient hoard with many tetradrachms of Vologases IV tetradrachms struck October 172 AD. By chance, the mint output from September and November didn't make it into a hoard discovered in modern times.
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 Posted 10/26/2019  8:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
@augustus1, thanks for the reply and yes when you factor in hoards, weird things happen to the otherwise normal distribution of things. However, in this case, @bob has listed tets minted in: October 153, October 155, and October 172 while my coin was minted in October 183. I didn't want to hijack this thread by posting pics of my coin, but it shows much heavier wear than these other (earlier) coins, so it would be odd for all four to have been hoarded together. Also, I don't see why someone would hoard coins from different years, but the same month. It seems more likely to me that perhaps either die engraving was done during a fairly narrow window during the year or else we are mis-reading the word "October". Or you could be right...
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 10/26/2019  9:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list
How interesting, Dave. Please feel welcome to post the coin here. I'd love to see it.

I don't believe I've seen any studies comparing the frequency of emissions - one month versus another. But it is an interesting coincidence.

Our sampling is certainly too small to conclude anything definitive. However if there are indeed more Octobers (ΔIOV) among the Sellwood 84's than other months, I wonder if that might have something to do with the fact that in the Seleukid calendar - which the dates on Parthian tets are based on - each new year starts in October. (Seleukid Era years run from October through the following September) Could it be that there was a tradition of striking an abundance of new tets at the start of each new year - and then easing off in subsequent months?
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 Posted 10/27/2019  06:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
Ok here is my Volo IV tet. It was attributed as Sellwood 84/96. Your prior comment them being found in rough shape was accurate with regard to this specimen, although I do kinda like the planchet flaws on this example.


My-4th-4-–-New-Vologases-IV-Pickup
My-4th-4-–-New-Vologases-IV-Pickup

"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 10/27/2019  08:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list
Yep, that's definitely October on yours, Dave.

Can you perhaps provide a better pic of the year, above the diadem that Tyche is handing the king? At question is whether it's a koppa or pi after the E. The pic is really fuzzy, but I'd be inclined to call it a pi (Π) from what I currently see. If that's right, that it's a Π, then it's a Sellwood 84.48, October 173.

Koppa's on these issues were rendered as tiny triangles sitting atop short verticals. I don't have the impression that's what middle letter looks like - although, again, it's really hard to see.

Edit:
To clarify the point, Dave, here is an 84.48 (top) and what is described as an 84.96-103 (below - personally I believe this one is an unpublished variety from Sept. 184, with VΠEP visible for the month) If your coin has the year seen in the top coin, it is an S.48 - therefore 173 AD. If it has the year seen on the bottom coin, in conjunction with the clear October month on yours, it is an S.96 - therefore 183 AD.


My-4th-4-–-New-Vologases-IV-Pickup
Edited by Kamnaskires
10/27/2019 09:05 am
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 Posted 10/27/2019  10:31 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
Ok thanks for the clarification. In hand, the middle symbol on my coin looks to be a letter pi rather than a koppa. I'll try to capture that with my wholly inadequate camera set-up.


Added: I should point out that in a quick survey of ma-shop and vcoins, I'm mostly seeing October and November months in the dates, but the sample size is still quite small. For many, the undersized flan means that most or all of the month is missing.


Added: This is about the best that I can do with my camera set-up. Do you agree that middle character is a pi?


My-4th-4-–-New-Vologases-IV-Pickup
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
Edited by Spence
10/27/2019 12:51 pm
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 Posted 10/27/2019  12:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list

Quote:
Do you agree that middle character is a pi?


I do. I would call it an S.84.48, minted October 173.

Perhaps time for a new camera?
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 Posted 10/27/2019  2:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
Dude I've been using my ole Celestron since I got here to CCF. The biggest upgrade to my system has been that I now try to shoot on a black background rather than an off-white one.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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 Posted 10/27/2019  8:03 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kamnaskires to your friends list

Quote:
Dude I've been using my ole Celestron since I got here to CCF.


My-4th-4-–-New-Vologases-IV-Pickup
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 Posted 10/27/2019  8:42 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Palouche to your friends list
Thats funny!
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 Posted 10/28/2019  7:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
Very nice @bob.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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