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Bok Officially Begins Campaign To Rid The Coin

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Pillar of the Community
Sweden
1078 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2017  03:23 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add X2an to your friends list
Lembafc, thanks for all answers!

Yes, I do indeed underestimate Korea, probably because I've never been there and seen how it actually is
Great to hear some insight!
Valued Member
Korea, Republic Of
489 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2017  08:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lembafc to your friends list

Quote:
South Korea's modern coins started to mint in mid 60's after the Korean War, and there just aren't enough variety of coins to be collected and peek interests from South Koreans, in my humble opinion.


Even taking out the cash coins, the "modern coin" in Korea began with the Japanese introducing their coin minting process. If you don't consider that, then the true first Korean-made modern coins came in 1959 with the 10, 50, and 100 Hwan coins. If you aren't counting the Hwan and only considering the second Won, then yes you're correct.

And you are very correct in stating that there aren't enough variety of coins. You are also correct about the comparison. Korean coin collected is nowhere near the US.
Pillar of the Community
United States
1475 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2017  3:48 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Coconutjoe to your friends list
It was an interesting thread Lembafc. Thanks for the info.

As US type coin collector, I got few Korean coins when I visited there about 10 years ago. I did like the designs of 50 won & 100 won which I took back to the States. I also picked up FIFA silver commemorative coin.




Bok-Officially-Begins-Campaign-To-Rid-The-Coin
Edited by Coconutjoe
04/28/2017 3:49 pm
Valued Member
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2017  10:31 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mlov to your friends list
The first domestically-minted South Korean made coins were NOT the hwan coins, but the 1966 won coins.

See my webpages on South Korean coins: http://dokdo-research.com/hwancoins.html
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 04/28/2017  10:49 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list
mlov is correct - the hwan coins were struck in US.

The first machine struck coin struck in Korea would be 1886 pattern coin set. 5 mun and 10 mun would appear in 1888. Machine struck coins would be on hiatus again until 1892 however were only released in the public in 1894. The last machine struck coin in Korea would be the 1902 5 fun until 60+ years later.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Valued Member
Korea, Republic Of
489 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2017  8:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Lembafc to your friends list

Quote:
The first domestically-minted South Korean made coins were NOT the hwan coins, but the 1966 won coins.


I stand corrected then. :)

I think my point was that the collection history, or coins to be collected, in Korea goes way back. Thanks to all for the information.

I was showing a friend my collection this weekend and we got on this subject of coins going away and I am still unsure what will happen. We will have to see in 2020 when they go away.
Pillar of the Community
Australia
3831 Posts
 Posted 05/03/2017  07:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add gxseries to your friends list
This reminds me of countries where they tried to kill coins but somehow returned back by "popular" demand. Let's ignore countries with large inflation as coins become too expensive to produce (i.e. Venezuela, Zimbabwe, etc).

Belarus haven't had circulating coins from 1992 to 2016
Vietnam? Not too sure
Hong Kong attempted to kill coins from 1998, only to have coins struck in 2012.
Believe some Scandinavia countries are on the list as well.

Let's see how that goes for the next 20 years down the road.
My partial coin collection http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/gxseries
My numismatics articles and collection: http://www.gxseries.com/numis/numis_index.htm
Regularly updated at least once a month.
Valued Member
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  02:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list
Only 2.2% of Korea's banknotes and coins by value is coins while 80.3% is the largest denomination banknote, and 95% is in the top two denomination banknotes.

The KRW50,000 banknotes (worth less than $50) has only been circulating since 2009 because widespread fear of N Korean counterfeiting has meant that S Korea was reluctant to issue large denomination banknotes. But having no banknote larger than KRW10,000 (less than $10) meant that foreigners would face getting stacks of bills from an ATM.

If you look at circulation per inhabitant in S Korea, you realize that the true objective of the elimination is to eliminate all small banknotes as well.
Number per inhabitant of banknotes and coins (% of cash)
 33.7	KRW 50,000 banknote	80.3%
 30.8	KRW 10,000 banknote	14.7%
  5.4	KRW 5000 banknote	 1.3%
 30.7	KRW 1000 banknote	 1.5%
 47.0	KRW 500 coin	1.12%
186.6	KRW 100 coin	0.89%
 38.9	KRW 50 coin	0.09%
155.5	KRW 10 coin	0.07%

Cash per individual in South Korea is still about triple that of Sweden using straight currency conversion (not accounting for the lower cost of living in Korea).

Eliminating coins will for the most part eliminate any need to pay with the smaller banknotes. It would be silly to pay for something with KRW 1000 bill (less than $1) and receive your change on a card.

Once the coins and small banknotes are no longer in widespread usage, the government can go after the larger notes very quickly in case of a counterfeiting scare. In the 1940s in Britain there was a massive counterfeiting scare when it was uncovered that the Nazi's had an elaborate counterfeiting operation using captured Jewish calligraphers.

Britain recalled all £5 notes and replaced them with ones incorporating metal threads in less than 15 months. Then they demonetized all notes except the £1 note and the new £5 notes with the metal thread (worth about US$20 at the time). That way the money supply was relatively safe from counterfeits.

If South Korea detects large numbers of North Korean counterfeits, the routine transactions will already be carried out electronically. They can order all the large notes be turned into banks for Counterfeit Detection and to be deposited into bank accounts, or their value added to electronic cards or phone apps.

Switzerland twice printed an entire reserve banknote supply just in case counterfeiting became a problem. They no longer do that as they now have so many anti-counterfeiting devices in their banknotes that it is virtually impossible to make an undetectable copy.

But South Korea is circulating 100 banknotes and over 400 coins per individual, while Sweden is circulating only 20 banknotes and about 60 coins per individual. In the extreme event of having to replace the entire banknote supply, obviously it would be much easier to have considerably smaller numbers.
Edited by PacoMartin
05/04/2019 08:13 am
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
7962 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  08:25 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list
Very interesting analysis.

I understand that coin collectors worry that large changes to the use of coins could affect the hobby, but if we just look around us, there are strong collecting markets for all kinds of obsolete currencies: every type of ancient coin, all of the principalities of the Holy Roman Empire and pre-unification Italy, the Spanish colonial era, and so on.

As for privacy issues related to the migration from hard currencies to electronic ones, for 99% of us, we agreed to relinquish many aspects of personal privacy when we began to rely on electronic devices, social media, etc.
Edited by tdziemia
05/04/2019 08:25 am
Valued Member
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  09:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list
There is so much paranoia about government invasion of privacy, but I still think it is simply a matter of efficiency.

You have so many small banknotes and coins that are basically recording ciphers at great expense, it's only natural to want to reduce costs.

1 SEK = 122 KRW, 1 AUD = 819 KRW
South Korea banknotes and coins in Won
50,000	80.3%
10,000	14.7%
 5,000	 1.3%
 1,000	 1.5%
------------------
   500 	 1.12%
   100	 0.89%
    50	 0.09%
    10	 0.07%

Sweden banknotes and coins in krona
1000	 5.9%
500	70.6%
200	 9.2%
100	 5.4%
50	 1.6%
20	 1.8%
------------------
10	 3.85%
5	 0.82%
2	 0.51%
1	 0.31%

Australian banknotes and coins in AUD
AUD 100	42.2%
AUD 50	45.5%
AUD 20	4.4%
AUD 10	1.7%
AUD 5	1.3%
------------------
AUD 2.00	2.09%
AUD 1.00	1.16%
AUD 0.50	0.61%
AUD 0.20	0.47%
AUD 0.10	0.29%
AUD 0.05	0.27%

The standard currency reform (illustrated by AUD) is to
(1)turn the smallest banknote(s) into a coin(s), and
(2)eliminate the very smallest value coin(s).

Sweden has reduced circulation of it's largest denomination banknote as a currency reform.

Korea is simply getting rid of all coins, which will also eliminate the need for most of the small banknotes. Although the T-money cards are restricted to a maximum of about US$430, it is quite possible that many people will be nervous about losing them or having them stolen. I think it will be much more common to store $50-$100 on each card, but either way the smallest three denominations of banknotes will be used a lot less.
Edited by PacoMartin
05/04/2019 3:32 pm
Pillar of the Community
Learn More...
United States
7962 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  4:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list

Quote:
There is so much paranoia about government invasion of privacy, but I still think it is simply a matter of efficiency.


It's nice to re-visit a thread with two years' hindsight.
Because today we know that equal or greater threats of invasion of privacy have arisen in the private sector due to the financial incentives in selling information on where people go, who they talk to, and what they buy.

I am also curious to hear from our Korean colleagues how the transition feels from their perspective, at two years since this thread began.
Edited by tdziemia
05/04/2019 4:56 pm
Valued Member
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  9:13 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list
In Sweden the central bank website prominently displays the following statement:

The Riksbank does not govern how much cash is in circulation in society. This is instead determined by demand from the general public.
Riksbanken styr inte över hur mycket kontanter som används I samhället utan det styrs av allmänhetens efterfrågan.

Instead of the words "govern" and "determine" which are English words of Latin origin, Swedish uses the verb "styr" which is related to the English verb "steer". The sentence in Swedish implies that the central bank is not "steering the changes in circulating cash".

I would be interested in the opinions of someone from South Korea on this issue. It seems like the Bank of Korea is very much "steering the boat" with regards to cash in circulation.

I am also curious how much money people typically keep on their T-mobile cards. If it is 100,000KRW ~ US$86 that gives me an idea how useful it is in replacing cash for purchases.
Edited by PacoMartin
05/04/2019 10:44 pm
Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts
 Posted 05/04/2019  11:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Wade to your friends list
first off, I don't own a tinfoil hat, BUT...
the whole planet has been "cashless" since the gold standard was dropped.
coins and paper notes are nothing more than a promise (soon to be digital), and the house of cards will only continue to stand as long as the little people continue to believe what they are being told.
if/when the grid collapses the only thing of "value" will be food, water and ammunition. and honestly with enough ammunition you can have all the food and water!
Valued Member
United States
411 Posts
 Posted 05/05/2019  1:07 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add PacoMartin to your friends list
Banknotes are technically a "promise", but the preferred term is that they are "sovereign money" and are a liability to the central bank. They differ from "commercial bank money" which exists purely in electronic form and is backed by loans made by the commercial banks.

Back in 1725 the Bank of England issued its first banknotes in denomination £20 and £50, which was a huge amount of money at the time. Normal transactional money was coins of copper, silver, and gold and banknotes were more like IOUs that made it easier to travel or to hide money on your person.

Today 1 million Won ~ US$860 and the South Korean government circulates a little over 2 million Won per inhabitant in the form of 100 banknotes and over 400 coins per inhabitant. Perhaps in five years normal transactional money will be electronic, and banknotes will be closer to what they were in 1725 (relatively large amounts of value). Today nearly 80% of the value of S Korean cash is in the 50,000 KRW denomination.

Personally, I can forsee a the Korean government demonetizing the 1000, 5000, and 10000 KRW banknotes right after the coins are demonetized. The T-Money cards can be loaded with up to 500,000 Won, so they are perfectly adequate to replace the three small denominations of banknotes as well as coins.

There are only 1.7 billion banknotes of 50,000KRW denomination in circulation for a population of just over 50 million. In the event of a counterfeiting scare they can be replaced in a reasonable amount of time. Replacing the full count of banknotes in circulation (5.2 billion) would be much harder.
Edited by PacoMartin
05/05/2019 1:10 pm
Valued Member
United States
156 Posts
 Posted 10/03/2019  9:08 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add mlov to your friends list
http://goccf.com/t/286816&whichpage=2#2968197

The Bank of Korea has been much more concerned about its own citizens hiding cash in large amounts, and in more-easy-to-hide large banknotes, than any NK supernote printing. That, and a controversy over a map of Korea that was to be on the 100,000-Won banknote gave their Ministry of Finance the perfect excuses to avoid releasing it.

And if the NKs are going to cause trouble, they'd do it "electronically." Ask the Central Bank of Bangladesh about that. Oh, but the NKs would never attack the South's electrical grid, or try to cause any harm to their poor little friends in the South, now would they? Never happen. Not in a million years...

Getting rid of cash... hm. Not totally sure the Koreans will actually do it. I'm still waiting and seeing. Electronic payments really work well in Korea. But I think Koreans still like cash too much to rid of it. We'll see...
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