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Byzantine Coin With Saints

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First Page  Showing last 15 replies.
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Valued Member
Italy
78 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  12:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Burkhard to your friends list
Actually a lovely coin
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United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  2:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
Interesting coin, it is overstruck on an earlier coin and I agree that it was Justinian I. IMO this coin is Justin II and Sophia overstruck on a follis of Justinian I.
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Russian Federation
5176 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  3:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list
Well, Justin II and Sophia didn't have a year 21, and it would be strange to have a half follis overstruck on a follis (especially since a Justinian I follis would be huge). Besides, I don't think the style of the double portrait is right for that pair, anyway.

I stand by my previous theory of a Heraclius SB 810 follis, regnal year 21 (631 AD), over an earlier half follis (perhaps of Justinian, for all I can tell, but probably later).

If true, incidentally, it will make this coin eligible for the "walking back by decades" thread
Valued Member
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  8:02 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list
Its half follis of Heraclius over( or under?) a 3/4 follis (sear 812) also of heraclius.


Byzantine-Coin-With-Saints
Edited by arnoldoe
05/28/2017 8:11 pm
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United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
I see what your saying. But here is my thoughts on this coin. The coin was overstruck on an earlier example of a follis, we agree on that. But what I think has happened, is what you are saying is XXI has actually been altered to ANN (O missing) and if you look to the right of the K there is an X which would make it year 8 of Justin II reign 574/75 AD. This is one of those iffy coins.
Valued Member
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  8:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list
It perfectly matches a 3/4 follis, every detail you can see confirms it, the star between the obverse busts, the monogram to the left of heraclius etc..

I don't see anything that looks like it would match a Justin II coin...
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Russian Federation
5176 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  9:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list
Come to think of it - what the weight is?

If it's ~10-12 grams, it's a SB 810 of year 21, just like I said originally. (Apparently due to a brief reform the coins of this particular year are heavier than usual for the type.)
If it's ~5-7 grams, it's a SB 812. If it's ~3-4 grams, it's a SB 1010 (not ruling it out).
If it's somewhere not in those ranges... could be anything really (even Justin II, though I still think the portraits don't match that).

BTW, I think there's another X next to that X right of the big K, so (assuming it's not part of the other strike's mintmark, which it might well be if we're looking at a 3/4 follis) the year would have to be over 20, which pretty much only leaves Justinian I and later Heraclius.
A Heraclius half follis of the late 630s would be way too small for this (well under 5 grams); a late Justinian I half follis from the 550s would indeed be about the right weight to be restruck as a year 21 Heraclius follis or 3/4 follis, however. (It would have to be 70-odd years old by then, mind you, but this isn't beyond plausibility.)
[EDIT: on second thought, arnoldoe's pics made it clear that the undertype, whoever it is, is not Justinian but another double portrait - not sure if Justin II or Heraclius is more likely. Curiouser and curiouser.]

For what it's worth, WEGM shows a very nice example of 3/4 follis of Heraclius from year 21, which is indeed a good match for this coin. Apparently a rarer date too!
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United States
34427 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  9:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list

Quote:
Curiouser and curiouser.


Fascinating discussion!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb

"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Russian Federation
5176 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list

Quote:
Fascinating discussion!
The best part is, if it goes the way I (and arnoldoe) think it does, this coin would be eligible to advance the "walking back by decades" thread (year 21 of Heraclius = 630/31 AD).
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United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/28/2017  10:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
It's too bad we can't examine the coin in hand. Yes the weight would be very helpful and would be the deciding factor. I'm also trying to make out the head of the figure on the left, appears to be at an angle from the body from figure on the right. I also can't tell if there is Heraclius distinctive mustache and beard. Hopefully we can get a size and weight.

I think I might be, being swayed to agree with you two.
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Netherlands
847 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2017  03:48 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vince1977 to your friends list
Wow interesting stories! I have here the weight. it is 6,26 grams and the diameter aproxximatly 24mm
I am not an expert in this period. Just my 6th coin from byzantine period.
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Russian Federation
5176 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2017  04:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list
Almost certainly a Heraclius 3/4 follis then (probably SB 812); regnal year 21 (630/1 AD).

Struck over (or under?) a 1/2 follis, regnal year 10+x (14? 23? couldn't find any example where the regnal year is set up like that), very possibly also of Heraclius.

Appears to be eligible for the "walking back by decades" thread - currently looking for 630s
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United States
23731 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2017  3:12 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
With that size and weight It would make it a Heraclius, I stand corrected.
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Netherlands
847 Posts
 Posted 05/29/2017  3:28 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add vince1977 to your friends list
Out of curiosity is an coin like this rare and what would it be worth? I think I did pay 25-30 euro for it in the past
Valued Member
Canada
266 Posts
 Posted 05/30/2017  12:13 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add arnoldoe to your friends list

Quote:

Struck over (or under?) a 1/2 follis, regnal year 10+x (14? 23? couldn't find any example where the regnal year is set up like that), very possibly also of Heraclius.

Its probably a sear 815 over the 3/4 follis,
sear 815 has dates from year 20-31
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