When Does Overgrading Become Unethical On Vcoins?

I don't pay any attention to a coin grade on an ancient. I rely upon the photos, and if they are bad or questionable I move along.

I agree with jskirwin. There is also a higher level of subjectivity in grading ancients given the greater number of factors which affect grade.

I would not jump so quickly to condemn the vcoins dealer on that single listing. In saying this, I have not comprehensively reviewed their other listings. Unless I am missing something, all he or she said is "good quality" and "magnificent portrait" each of which are purely subjective opinions. Yes, it can actually be described as "good quality" relative to the many coins which are in worse condition to this one. I am not familiar enough with the coinage of Herennia Etrscilla to comment on whether the portrait is of a a finer style than the typical examples.

I am sure that the manufacturers of both Toyotas and Ferrari's describe their vehicles as being of "good quality" and make positive remarks about the way they appear, despite the public knowing that one produces economy cars and the other high end luxury ones.

If the dealer's Comments on grade however were referable to an actual grading system and they were way off the mark (e.g. EF), then it would be another issue.

I would put their coin at gF. Also it looks weakly struck on the obverse with potentially a worn die on the reverse and flan crack at 1 o'clock. Out of interest, how would others grade that coin?

Peter

Among the pledges that constitute VCoin's Code of Ethics are:




Exaggerated grading - as well as the application of artificial sand patinas (for which several VCoins' dealers are notorious) - qualify as misrepresentation of coins, in my opinion. One could argue that these tactics also violate the following pledges from the Code:










Contributors to two ancient boards have been increasingly bemoaning VCoins' lack of enforcement of the Code. Some have written to VCoins' management. Thus far there hasn't been much in the way of results. Certainly the fake patina guys continue to do their thing. Thankfully there are still lots of good, aboveboard dealers on the site.

Dear lrbguy,

As stated in my post:




I think this clearly shows we are in agreement had I worked from the same facts as you! I did somehow miss his grading even though it was in plain sight! I must confess that I am unfamiliar with that system of grading. My comments therefore can be taken to relate simply to the rest of his subjective remarks. I have no issue if people describe their coins as beautiful etc. provided that if they use a conventional system of grading, they attempt to stick to it and not intentionally overgrade their coins.




Bob, having taken a decade long break from collecting I am amazed at some of the changes which have occurred. ebay has become a bigger minefield than I remember it and vcoins used to be a safehaven but now like anywhere else, requires individual scrutiny of dealers - judging by recent posts here and elsewhere. They seem to tolerate repatinated coins in particular which are not described such, or to the contrary.

Peter

I have not bought a coin on this site for many months. I have seen them ignore the unethical behaviour of some of their dealers and so I decided to take my money elsewhere.

Yes agreed. I'm losing confidence in vcoins more and more. That is a shame.

That is a general way to sum it up, sel_691, but the focus here is on overgrading as an ethical violation of professional standards when it is consistent and persistent in the listings of a seller. It needs to be pointed out and backed up with an official statement. Sellers who are not willing to conform to the ethical standard need to be weeded out - despite the potential revenue loss to the consortium.


To the problem example I gave you: Were you able to figure out the reverse type of our putatively AU graded example?


Here is a parallel example I purchased from another Vcoins seller at less than half the price of the first ($75 vs 150 EUR). Far from AU it was graded more modestly at aVF.


Juno standing left holding patera and staff, with peacock at her feet to the left. The IVNO REGINA reverse is the least common of the three reverse types from Rome normally seen for Etruscilla. While that may have an impact on price, it compromises standards to have it also have a softening effect on grading. Square dealing says that neither this coin nor the original is anything close to AU.

For an example that is much closer to a true AU. but still falls short, consider this from the educational website of Zach Beasley (Beast Coins):



I don't like the irregular edge even for Zach's coin, but given the fact that this reverse type is seen less often I would pay the first seller's asking price for it as an AU.

But all of this begs the question, How could anyone mistake that first coin for such a high grade of condition. My hunch is that they fell in love with one feature (the portrait?) and lost perspective.

I buy from this seller, and as necessary will continue to do so. But if this continues he will never become a trusted advisor or source of supply.

Message to sellers who wish to overgrade for profit: you are stealing from your clients who will not recover what you are costing them. Overgrading, and high energy hyping, go hand in hand with building your business for the short run (ie. quick kill, and out). Strengthen the hobby by building your business for the long haul - or spare us the agony and get out now.

Sorry for the confusion, tenbobbit.

My posts are calls for public pressure on Vcoins for a weak point in the application of their code. Why should Bill P. and company respond to isolated problems unless there is a bigger picture. All of this is independent of what I might say, or be saying to the vendor personally.

As for buying from the seller in question, the volume of that is directly related to how much transformation I see. I am not an all or nothing guy in the matter of public morality. The goal is to transform not destroy.