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 Replies: 20 / Views: 5,479 |
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Bedrock of the Community
 United States
12477 Posts |
In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Since there's a "story", my first thought was that someone added an S to a 1909 and forgot to check if it was a VDB. But that would be ridiculous.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1213 Posts |
I don't see any issues either, but I've got a large bowl and milk handy in case I have to eat my words. Waiting for the rest of the story.
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Rest in Peace
United States
17900 Posts |
I'd be at AU-53 and other than the woodie effect, I don't see any problems.
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Valued Member
United States
261 Posts |
Nice coin. Also can't wait to hear the story.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7516 Posts |
AU53 for me.excellent coin  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3474 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
4078 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
2843 Posts |
So patience is not one of my strong points, so here is the story, and it is not much. I have a coin friend/dealer who submits a lot of coins to PCGS. Hundreds at a time. I was talking to him about my suspicious 1909 S V.D.B. http://goccf.com/t/295573 if you want to see it. He pulled this out and said that he got this back from PCGS in a body bag. He asks me if I would have bought it as genuine, I say yes. (I know he would have as well, because although he got it in a lot that he paid a flat fee for, he did send it in!) He tries to indicate to to me what he believes PCGS found wrong with it, but I am not convinced. Then he gifted it to me. I am still not convinced PCGS is not always right, and their positive confirmation means more to me than their negative. They take no risk in saying it is fake because who will show them up? I am not denying their authority, but things happen. Also, I don't know what PCGS said exactly, I am taking his word that they think the MM is funny. The tail of the S...IDK. Now I am contemplating the thought of submitting it to ANACS. Is that unethical? Is that like submitting a "known" fake in the hopes of "getting it by" a 2nd tier grading company. Or is like getting a 2nd opinion? So I posted it here to see if it stuck out to anybody else - without knowing what PCGS said. Your replies indicate that it may very well be the case that I am correct. Now what? |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3474 Posts |
People resubmit coins graded 65 in hopes of getting 66 all the time. I don't see a problem sending the coin to ANACS to confirm/refute another TPG opinion. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
Perhaps I was right. The S looks too large, too fat, shifted left, not tilted like others, the top right seems chopped off. But I don't know what the MM positions/shapes are on these. OP:  PCGS red:  PCGS brown:  Edited by kbbpll
09/27/2017 10:35 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2843 Posts |
@Kbbpll-
While you are right in saying that it does not match the examples shown, I am fairly certain that there would be at least a few MM positions that were used to make the 1.85 million cents made in SF w/o the initials.
Even the far scarcer 484K with initials had 4 obverse dies used. Additionally, the very coins you posted one is the RPM the other is not. As far as font style goes, yes the top right seems truncated, but the size and fatness could be explained away by a better applied punch and some wear.
Edited by BigSilver
09/27/2017 10:59 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3327 Posts |
I won't pretend to be an authority on authentication for these coins, but if this is a fake, it is a pretty good one. Position appears to be a little different, but I certainly haven't seen them all.
If this mintmark was added, they did a masterful job of matching up the woodgrain pattern...
"Nummi rari mira sunt, si sumptus ferre potes." - Christophorus filius Scotiae
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4233 Posts |
I just grabbed the two images off PCGS that had the closest MM; I did see that the one is doubled and that there are at least two other MM positions. Yes, if it's fake it's a very good job, replicating the woodie appearance is hard to imagine. And why on a no-VDB? I suppose at MS65 they turn a $65 coin into a $600 coin, but still. I'm certainly no expert, I just compare images and that's all. There is the appearance of some tooling left of the S (highlighted below) but again just pointing out stuff. If you have 15 coins to send to ANACS they have some pretty good sales. OP:  A different PCGS brown:  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Dunno, looks OK and AU-50 to me. Crazyb0 -  |
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Posted 09/27/2017 01:17 am
