High Grade Cleaned Vs Low Grade Straight

Cleaning used to be a common thing to do for coin collectors in The Netherlands, just like spraying them with some varnish to 'protect' the coins, especially copper ones. So there's a lot of coins out there for my Dutch type set which have had cleaning in the past. Looking for straight coins is a very very tough job, so I have to give in there. In that case, a cleaned coin goes above a low grade.

Modern cleaning, like the Norwegian Samlerhuset does, is an absolute no-no. They really kill any coin they get their hands on and sell it to the unknowing at ridiculous prices. HOrrible company.

I can go either way just depends on the coins in question. There's plenty of cleaned coins that actually look attractive and wouldn't bother most collectors, really though the most important aspect is that not all details coins are made equally and I could easily see the cleaned coin being the more pleasing one even though it wouldn't be assured of that.

I was at MSNS where a dealer had a draped bust half that was so cleaned it was shiny. It had XF details and we were both wondering just how much it ought to sell for. I asked would you prefer a problem free G over this XF? No, how about a problem free VG? No, How about Fine? This is where both of us kind of hesitated. So I guess a scrubbed up XF is worth Fine money, at least for that series. Two full grades down. A lot of people don't really get just how much the value is hurt in these cases.

I've heard frog skin is an excellent coin buffer

If I had a choice between a 1916 LSQ in VF straight or the same coin in AU that had been cleaned I would get the VF coin. If I am going to pay thousands for a coin I want it to be certified and slabbed and untouched, no details and no cleaning. Any coin that costs more than $1000 needs to be in a slab because even experts can be fooled. If the coin is certified you can find a bigger fool.

What do we define as "cleaned"? I think there is some dispute among us about just what that definition. Is dipping a coin considered cleaning it? I can dip a coin for five seconds and it will have 100% more eye appeal but be the same XF or AU coin.

I was looking at some Draped Bust Dollars on the Heritage site and the VF coins look good, but the EF ones look so much better. Of course, there is a difference of $2000 between VF and EF. Even so I would rather have the uncleaned version in VF than the cleaned version in EF for the same price. We still do not have general agreement on what constitutes a "Cleaned Coin". I dipped some of my more common AU Morgans and Peace dollars and they instantly looked much better and much more appealing. Did I do wrong by dipping them for 5 seconds? The dirt, grease and grime of decades came off instantly. I even had a 1928 Peace dollar that looked pretty dull but was graded as EF. After dipping I think I could get it to slip by as AU. It has luster and no details and little ware.