Well, I Won It. But It Didn't Come Cheap!

Ron, I noticed the same hairlines earlier. It may be the reason why the coin got a Details grade. I can't be sure that they are from cleaning, as sometimes coins can have small hairlines from circulation. Another thing that makes it difficult to tell whether the coin has original surfaces is that we are grading the coin from pictures. However, the coin has still has a very nice eye appeal, cleaned or not cleaned.

Exactly. This was put under harsh light to try to bring out any flaws. I could show you my portfolio of other masterpieces of photography I took under that same lamp that others screamed were cleaned but came back in straight graded holders from the tpgs. I can see what one might think are 'hairlines' in the circles you drew but they aren't. Not even close.

Looking at your harshly-lit pictures, I see definite wear, so AU is justified. I am also no seeing the elevation chromatics and natural randomness that I would expect from a naturally-toned coin. I don't have the coin in hand, but I do not think the color is original.




False!

Here is a cleaned coin. The luster is blazing and original. PCGS called it cleaned. Bill Fivaz and I agreed. Whaddya think?

This seems like a good plan. Don't play into the TPG re-submit game.

Great looking Morgan. Are hairlines evident or is this a dipped coin? If no immediate evidence of cleaning stands out and the coin is "blazing" with luster as you describe, then I'd say the cleaner did a superb job, akin to what NCS does for a fee and then "qualifies" the coin for a grade. If the above holds true, I don't see why this Morgan shouldn't get a straight grade.

As for your argument about unnatural tone on Mike's coin, that's a different matter entirely. Terms like market acceptable or not have been used to discuss toning and from what I see, this half has lovely toning that only adds to appeal, even if it is "unnatural" - I'd pay a premium for this kind of toning and eye appeal.

Nevertheless, if it was the toning that led NGC to details this coin, then I'd have liked to see "questionable color" on the holder instead of "cleaning".

I still think a PCGS submission is a good idea. Maybe not right now, but at some point. Been a fun thread.

Fair enough. In my view this Morgan is entirely passable as a straight grade in the MS range. If hairlines are visible with carful inspection I can see why PCGS detail holdered it. This is not a particularly rare or valuable Morgan so no need to give it the leniency rarer coins receive. I don't know the cutoff threshold (I imagine it is quite arbitrary based on the group handling the coin) but in the realm of rare world coins, a lot of leeway is given.

This specimen is an example of a coin I own. I assure it is virtually impossible to find an untouched 250 year old coin that is as blast white as this one (akin to your Morgan). I know without a doubt it has been cleaned as hairlines are evident without much need for close inspection. You can even see hairlines in the NGC picture. But this is a straight graded MS63 so you know the coin got some (too much?) leeway, probably because of its strong luster.

https://www.NGCcoin.com/price-guide...duid-1544819

Point being, it's all a crapshoot and Mike should roll the dice again and re-submit! I believe his coin is beautiful and rare enough to warrant just a smidgeon of leeway which would be more than enough for a straight grade.