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Moderator
  United States
34416 Posts |
Thanks everyone for your comments and honest feedback. I agree that it is a bit of caveat emptor out there and this is one reason why it took me a while to pull the trigger.
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5242 Posts |
Quote:
NGC offers no guarantee that any of the ancients they slab are authentic I find this astonishing. In my mind this is the main reason one might send an ancient coin out to be slabbed. |
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Moderator
United States
34416 Posts |
Yep, here is what they say on the NGC Ancients website: Quote:
NGC Ancients Guarantee
Coins that bear the NGC Ancients label are subject and limited to the terms and conditions of this section.
NGC Ancients is committed to grading only genuine coins, but it does not guarantee authenticity, genuineness or attribution, nor is any guarantee of these aspects implied. NGC Ancients will only holder coins it considers genuine at the time of submission, but it cannot guarantee the authenticity, genuineness, type, attribution or date of any coin it holders. Unlike modern coins, which often benefit from well-documented, scientific parameters for the verification of authenticity, there rarely is conclusive data for ancient coins, and generally there is no surviving documentation to verify production characteristics.
Almost without exception, ancient coins have been recovered from burial, either under land or water. Some recoveries date back centuries, while others are more recent. Even in ancient times, coins were counterfeited, copied and imitated. If a particular submitted coin can positively be connected to a specific find or recovery that is documented, or is on track for documentation, it will be so designated if requested to do so by the submitter. However, even with these coins there can be no guarantee of their genuineness.
The dating and attribution of an ancient coin (the basic identification of a coin's place of origin, issuing authority, date of issue, design elements, specific variety, etc.) is oftentimes uncertain or is a matter of scholarly conjecture. Multiple and different attributions can coexist, each simultaneously finding acceptance within the numismatic community; in these cases NGC Ancients will use the attribution it considers most valid. New research or archeological evidence may challenge or change the consensus about an ancient coin's attribution, date, identification and even its authenticity. Consequently, the opinion of NGC Ancients on these matters is subject to change with the introduction of new information, or of existing information of which its grading staff was unaware at the time of holdering. Every effort will be made in good faith by NGC Ancients to properly attribute ancient coins, but no guarantee is made as to these qualities.
Therefore, with ancient coins NGC Ancients will only guarantee the grade. It is recommended that buyers purchase ancient coins from sellers who offer unconditional lifetime guaranties of authenticity, and who otherwise stand behind their sales... "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6130 Posts |
What a beauty!
I agree that the reverse is superb - love the detailing on the owl and the crispness of the lettering. Sincere congratulations!
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1194 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4211 Posts |
Very nice pick up Spence!
Congrats
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
I love this series of coins but alas I am a cynic. I have some reservations about this one that are perhaps unfounded but I will mention them and maybe someone else can clear them up.
Firstly I don't like the nose on Athena, its too big and kind of merges with the lip, the details are kind of mushy including the eye.
Second the reverse picture of the Owl looks more promising then I see the line on the edge at three o'clock and wonder if this is cast.
I hope I am incorrect but I wouldn't have gambled on this particular example. Have you got any edge shots?
Edited by DavidUK
12/30/2017 09:07 am
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Moderator
United States
34416 Posts |
Thanks for the references Albert! @davidUK, see below for some edge pics. I see no evidence of a parting line, but rather the edge shows some areas of layering and a couple small flan cracks. I do note that under magnification, there are small pores. Any additional thoughts?   "If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1194 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
2624 Posts |
Nothing to give conclusive condemnation from those edge shots. Though with a lost wax method of casting the lines are usually light and can be removed easily (only slight traces getting left behind) and pourosity is often a clue since any discrepancy in casying temp is liable to cause bubbles (though this can occur on genuine pieces too just to make our life more difficult)
The coins Antwerpen posts have definately sharper details but the nose and eye show similarities which lessens my concern somewhat.
I'll say congrats too because an owl is a great addition to any collection, a famous and iconic coin.
Maybe I am being paranoid, though with certain coin varieties you can understand it. I still think its worth asking the question though.
Edited by DavidUK
12/30/2017 10:11 am
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
1194 Posts |
David , with this owlcoins , if you see dots between the leg and the tail at 7 o'clock , it is not a casted coin,because it is nearly impssible to reproduce these dots ,I was told . I don t know if it is so , but I think it is very difficult to imitate these dots on this place . For the edge , it is normal for these coins see the first article . albert
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Moderator
United States
34416 Posts |
I appreciate both your caution and your additional information--thanks!
"If you climb a good tree, you get a push."
-----Ghanaian proverb
"The danger we all now face is distinguishing between what is authentic and what is performed."
-----King Adz
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Valued Member
United Kingdom
90 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
Very nice. An Athenian owl is on my bucket list.
And it is impressive that you got all of that nose on the flat.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
I don't really collect ancients, but who would not love this design. Congrats!
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Replies: 20 / Views: 3,462 |
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Posted 12/30/2017 08:11 am
