1836 Capped Bust Half -- Cleaned?

Okay guys. TPG companies are a paragon of business integrity and customers who spend millions of dollars a year with them get the exact same grades and breaks as customers who spend $100 in their lifetime. If you want to believe that go ahead and stick your head in the sand. That's your prerogative.

If you stick around and read the PCGS message boards for a decade or so you'll see. Every year examples show up and they are quickly squashed/bammed/deleted. Examples of coins from big dollar submitters grading MS70 and PR70 that are actually 68s abound. Cleaned, damaged problem coins submitted by the big boys grade problem-free while run of the mill collectors get entire orders returned no-grade with better pieces in them. Every day the big submitters get upgrades that others don't get.

Many people have postulated many reasons why this happens. Some nefarious and some reasonable arguments are made. One poster suggested that since very large submissions (100+ coins) are screened by top submitters/numismatists to include 90+ high-grade coins then the 10 dogs mixed in get a different look versus a guy who submits 10 coins with 9 dogs and 1 high-grade coin. This poster at CU Forums was banned immediately.

Other posters had submitted coins multiple times receiving no-grades and spending hundreds of dollars. Finally out of exasperation they add their coins into a submission from a known "big-dog" and they receive righteous grades. Again this poster was immediately banned. More examples occur annually, just watch and read and realize the our current world revolves around money.

Obtaining hard evidence might be tough. I could see steep price discounts along with quicker turn around time but getting a higher grade (maybe 1-2 grades higher), I don't know. But stranger things have happened. Hell, I just found a double headed 1964 Jefferson nickel, so you never know!

Hi Coinhistory,

Do you have the coin in hand yet? This point was already mentioned, and I think it is so very important, but highly understated.




This is so true. Photos can bring out the absolute worst in a coin, and it can bring out the absolute best in a coin... when you have the coin in hand, please let us know...

Well at least you got to witness a first class debate. Sorry if it strayed from your original subject but that discussion needed to be had. One of great benefits of CCF is that we are able engage in important dialog that isn't censored by the admins.

I would send it back. That is NOT the look of an original XF-45 coin. You can do much better than that. Again, PCGS has deemed it to be 'market acceptable'. Just because they did doesn't mean you have to. It has the details of an AU coin so they probably docked it a grade or two for the cleaning. Vote with your wallet.

I don't see any problems, in the second pic it looks like the light was reflecting off the coin.
Nevertheless, send this coin back immediately. It is definitely NOT original, uncleaned.

I have talked with several (honest) dealers about this, and I firmly believe that there is no way that a grader can know who owns what coin. The coins are handed to the graders without any form of identification. Just order numbers to keep the coins together. They can certainly make inferences based on the size of the submission or the coins involved, but there is no way to tell for certain. Keep in mind that I do not like the TPGs, yet I defend them in this case.

The only time I can think of when a specific lot of coins was overgraded across the board was when NGC graded the Stacks' 57th Street hoard. I've found coins in those slabs to be around 10 points high.

I have gotten overly generous grades before, so it is not just a major dealer thing.