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Grade Inflation Of Ancient Coins Over The Years.

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Author Previous TopicReplies: 19 / Views: 3,135Next Topic Page 2 of 2
Pillar of the Community
United States
616 Posts
 Posted 11/18/2018  9:16 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jskirwin to your friends list
Grade inflation in chemsitry? My late father-in-law, with a Ph.D in Chemistry and a lifelong Du Pont chemist, would have no sympathy.

I too think the application of the modern grading scale is inappropriate for ancients. Too many variables compared with modern coinage. Each is a unique, handmade piece of art, and like all art the value can be very subjective.
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 Posted 05/19/2019  9:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list
OK I know it has been a year since I posted this, but again, another old typed estate rates this coin below at a Fine Plus. Would you folks agree or have the standards changed a bit as for type, thus considering others of the series, is this not VF?

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Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 05/19/2019  9:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list
Yes, 25 years ago conservative European grading was the norm for ancients. Then some began to push for looser "American grading". Next we were hit with " ebay grading" (both a comedy and a tragedy) and "market grading". The last nail in the coffin was NGC Ancients grading.
Edited by Kushanshah
05/19/2019 9:44 pm
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23731 Posts
 Posted 05/19/2019  10:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add echizento to your friends list
At best I would grade that coin as aFine. In one of Wayne Sayles books he explains that system used to grade ancient coins. I try to hold to that when I grade my coins.
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 Posted 05/19/2019  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Check Victor's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Victor to your friends list
I don't see the point of grading coins when there is a picture and rarely ever mention grades in my listings. When a customer asks me what grade a coin is, I usually say something like I don't grade coins and would rather let the picture speak for itself.
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 Posted 05/20/2019  12:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list
Yes but for a late Roman, they held well over time. But these tetradrachms of Alexandria, they certainly did not. XF for a late Roman is near perfect agreed, plentiful enough and with many fine examples. But you can't use the same metric for all ancient coins.
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 Posted 05/20/2019  01:05 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Kushanshah to your friends list
Grading (coins) on a curve is a new concept for me.
Edited by Kushanshah
05/20/2019 01:12 am
Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2019  01:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
I really like the OP's approach to grading ancient coins.
A bit different, but perfectly OK.
From my experience, the most professional dealers of ancient coins are fairly resistant to grade inflation.

I notice that there has been some grade inflation over the years, with TPG slabbed coins.

Like any other coin, grade is critical to value.
I will happily accept any dealers grade,
provided that
it comes with honest qualifying comments
and
I examine the coin in hand, before making a decision to buy. That putes more responsibility back onto myself, I can live with caveat emptor.
That obliges me to attend public auction lot viewing days. You need time and convenience to do this, for which I feel very fortunate.
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United States
66 Posts
 Posted 05/20/2019  05:02 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add pilegicvs to your friends list
I have a copy of Littleton's "How to Collect Ancient Coins" with a copyright date of 2012. I read it years ago and visited their website. I just visited their website again tonight. Littleton sells ancients, and you can select the grade you want for a particular coin. The better the grade, the higher the price. The stock photo for a given coin has a grade, and when you select a better grade [if available], the photo does not change... Who in the modern world, with a modern website, would buy an ancient coin, sight unseen? (My point - the coin photo is more important than a coin grade...)
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 Posted 05/20/2019  09:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list
Well whatever the answer, it seems if you type in "ef for type" or "very fine for type" with quotations so the phrase is as written in acsearch you find just about everyone from cng down is using that as a grading system. So it has evolved into this even if it was a pure system for all ancient coins not considering when and where produced.
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 Posted 05/20/2019  09:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add joecoin to your friends list
I've always thought of technical grading as the amount of wear a coin has. If you know how much a coin weighed when minted, you could weigh it and assign a grade based on how much weight it has lost in circulation.

But that's only for "technical" grading and certainly would not apply to ancients without knowing the exact weight of the individual coin when it was minted.

Market grading is just marketing.
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Australia
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 Posted 05/20/2019  09:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add sel_69l to your friends list
I absolutely agree with the idea that an ancient coin has to have it's own picture.
It would be counter productive to the sale of the coin to do otherwise.
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 Posted 05/20/2019  3:24 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
There are basically two types of sellers
Collectors who "deal"
And Dealers who "collect"
To a true collector the grading must always be somewhat negative
BD scars look like "rough spots" to a dealer
They look like Small Pox to a collector !
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 Posted 05/20/2019  5:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add louisvillekyshop to your friends list
FVRIVS RVFVS

Obviously a bartender is best if they don't drink, a car dealer should not drive a fancy car, casino dealers should not play the games, the list goes on and on in life that mixing business with a hobby is not good for business. There are plenty of collectors in ancients who deal coins, but they love the coins so well they know if they got in a large low priced lot a coin for $3 and it is worth $60, they will list it at a $40 reserve and wait forever for the person to appreciate the coin as much as they did. A dealer who does not collect just collects knowledge like the New York diamond merchants who never wear diamonds. I remember a Bulgarian man wrote to me and said I was wrong to start all coins at $1 that are worth a lot more as I "cheapen the coin like treating a beautiful woman like a tramp". (I sincerely hope that sounds better in Bulgarian then the translation sounded when I read the message.) But to me only waiting for a a 400% profit for a sale just seems totally not right to do so I follow the old saying of not mixing business with pleasure and collect nothing which allows these coins to trade as any other commodity based on supply and demand. Much easier to be successful if you don't collect in my opinion and common practice for any other industry of traded goods.
Pillar of the Community
United States
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 Posted 05/20/2019  7:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list
I only sell because I do collect !
I try to restrict my selling to coins I would at one time or another have bought for my own collection
Sometimes I make a profit ......
Sometimes I don't !
Sometimes (not too often) I lose
Fortunately I don't have to pay all the bills around here
As long as I show enough to help subsidize my own personal "habit"
I am quite satisfied

Some coins I list rather high !
I'll let you in on my secret .......
It's because I don't really want to sell them
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