To muddy the waters even more, specimen dies were used for PL strikes, PL dies were used for business strikes. And, business strike dies were highly polished and refurbished for SP strikes - the scarce 1951 SP cent with incredible trail dies is an example of the latter.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
After hearing opinions that the 1964 coin in this post is a business strike, I've decided to try again with this differentiation.
Here is a video I made
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Trying to capture the reflection of a red, white, and blue flyer in various coins. The coin in the middle is a 1984 proof for reference. One interesting thing I noticed about the proof coin is that it actually magnifies the flyer.
I believe the top two are 1967 specimen coins (because of the strength of the strike on the shoulder), the bottom left is a 1964 business strike, and the others are 1964 PL.
That could be very useful. Are you aware of any online resource that would show that distinction? I really can't find anything online that actually shows images to try and identify these coins. I can see that the edges of my 1966 coins look different than my 1967 and 1964, and I just found a couple of 1964 that I would deem to be business strikes, and the reeds appear a bit shorter and the rim slightly rounded. Maybe that is the distinction I am looking for. I would love to see some pictures to confirm it.
Based on the video I shared, is the reflectivity of the coins effectively immaterial to identifying a coin as PL? This seems like this should be much simpler to figure out.
Quote: one distinction of the PL strike is a complete flat reeded edge, where the circulation coin has a rounded edge.
This is not always true. That is purely a function of a full or weak strike of the collar die...
There is no easy marker... experience is the best teacher with late 1960s to early 1980s business, PL and SP strikes. You have to study and handle lots of coins, to develop an eye (and feel) for it.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
I have lots of coins to study, but I'm lacking the specifics, and have not found a good resource to reference. I need help getting started. Can you tell anything about the 1967 dollar I posted above? Can you tell anything about the coins in the video I posted? Can you clearly read newsprint from a business strike from 4-6 inches away?
These are common coins. Take/cut them out of the sets, handle them, study them, study the rims, edges, devices near the edge and centre of the coin, fields, quality of the strike, etc... that is how you learn.
Note that 1967 is a silver year set, it actually gets a little tougher differentiating PL and SP nickel composition strikes after 1973, until 1981.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
If I understand you correctly, I should be able to differentiate a PL from a business strike by recognizing that a PL will exhibit a certain "je ne sais quoi". That leaves me feeling a bit like "je ne sais rien".
@SPP-Ottawa. Thanks for your reply. Not exactly what I wanted to hear, but it is what it is.
I'm not interested in collecting these, but rather sell them, so not looking to invest money into this endeavor. I have 140 of them between 1958 and 1967, and most are beautiful uncirculated coins, and I was hoping to get better than spot for them. I wanted to understand the differences, so I could be sure to accurately describe them in my listings. So, I guess I'll just post the date and a picture and see what happens.
Unless the PL (proof-like) coins are almost perfect - they are only worth spot anyway if they any marks on them.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
most people sell them as they are.. if they are nice grades just list them as such.. 1967 nice grade, or high grade.. there is no need to list the strike, unless the coin is in an original holder, either the case of the pl film, then there is no need to go further than that in the description.. High quality photos are your best friend when selling on ebay.. I never say proof like, unless it is in the original plastic, other wise I just say nice grade, see all photos..
OK - I understand the context a little better now, especially in the date ranges you speak of.
Specimen strikes prior to 1967 are really scarce - odds are that you don't have any. 1967 specimen strikes do no garner any premium over PL strikes.
Bright mirror fields, sometimes with cameo devices, and thick, well struck rim, tend to be PL coins. They have to be pretty much mark-free, or a really strong cameo, to garner any premium. Matte-like silver dollars tend to be business strikes, and they have to be MS-64 or better, or they are just worth spot.
"Discovery follows discovery, each both raising and answering questions, each ending a long search, and each providing the new instruments for a new search." -- J. Robert Oppenheimer
Thank you both for your input. I do find the Coins & Canada site to be very helpful. When I went through all these a couple of weeks ago, I somehow missed the Type V on the 1965. I am having difficulty distinguishing the difference between type V and Small Beads Pointed 5 in the pictures. What specifically should I be looking for?
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Posted 02/22/2019 8:17 pm
