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 Replies: 18 / Views: 3,668 |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Just curious, anyone thinks these counter strikes are remotely collectable, usually just newbies get caught paying horrific prices at some auctions because they believe it's a RCM product. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1747 Posts |
Silverwolf, they were cashing in on the "Canada 150" craze of 2017, marking the 150th anniversary of the creation of Canada. I would highly doubt they would have any real count of how many they made, and they would not need the mints permission to do this.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
I beg to differ, if this isn't defacing a Canadian coin, I don't know what is.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
999 Posts |
I remember they were selling the 1967 counter-stamped dollars for $300 a couple years ago. The recent Colonial Acres auction had a couple of the dollars listed. The starting price was $139 and neither sold. I think the hype has worn off.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
665 Posts |
Why isn't this graded as "PL-Details". I have never understood the practice of counter stamping adding value to a coin. In the example above, to my eye, this is PMD. I am surprised that the 2012 Charlton Silver Dollar section lends credence to the practice by providing values and premiums to the JOP counter stamped dollars. Yes I know the JOP story but it doesn't detract from the fact that this is PMD. I had thought that legitimate errors and varieties were released by the mint and anything that occurs after that is PMD. Anyone with enough precision tooling and skill can fabricate an ArnPrior dollar however if it didn't come from the mint that way... it is either PMD or a forgery. If it is solely "in the eye of the beholder"... then great... I will pass. Does this obscure deviation from normal grading & details designations apply to paper money... e.g. a pristine bill with "Fred's cash" written in crayon add value? |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2301 Posts |
Counter stamping is illegal without permission no matter WHAT anyone says.
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
3733 Posts |
Quote:
I would highly doubt they would have any real count of how many they made, and they would not need the mints permission to do this. i can guarantee that they sought and received the Mint's approval for these. and they would have had to provide numbers to the mint to secure the permission to do so. I don't believe the mint would have said go and see how they sell, then make more of them if you do well.. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
so I take it the RCM is receiving a royalty from these over strikes ? I believe the auctioneer mentioned there was like 300 of the 67 dollar coins done, if the RCM is granting approvals for such small gains no wonder they are down 45 million or so last year. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2784 Posts |
john100 replacing most of the presses at the ottawa mint last year. that probably did not help there profic either
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Capital cost items for businesses are easily and favourably tax relief for any company, the last annual report shows drastic decrease in NCLT sales, me think that's the problem. By allowing a dealer to counter stamp a coin for such small gain is just insane, remember a couple years ago the Auditor General"s report on the RCM sending spouses on oversea junkets basically on our dollar. Eventually the RCM will be like a pro soccer team with sponsored logos all over our coinage, but at least some teams do get insane amounts into the 50 to 70 million euros annually. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
2781 Posts |
Quote:
Does this obscure deviation from normal grading & details designations apply to paper money... e.g. a pristine bill with "Fred's cash" written in crayon add value? if "Fred" is someone who played a prominent role in Canadian history, then sadly YES. illegal or not. same can be said if the buyer simply believes (real or not) in what "fred" adds to the premium price/value. Quote:
Counter stamping is illegal without permission no matter WHAT anyone says.
same could be said for counterfeits - except there are no provisions for "permission" to produce counterfeits. point is, anyone could counterstamp as much as one wanted - and little (if anything) would be done about it. (not endorsing the practice BTW - just sayin' no one is loosing sleep over possible punishment). if the gov'ment doesn't do anything about blatant counterfeits do you really think they will pursue a counter-stamper? Quote:
Citadel Coins in Halifax did these... basically, for them, it was like printing money. Take common PL coins, counter stamp them, and sell them with a hefty mark-up.... case in point. I highly doubt they asked permission, reported "mintage", or otherwise paid any sort of royalty. laws (non-capital) are only in place to keep law-abiding citizens in check and feeling safe. I can only imagine how far down the list of priorities that "counter-stamping for profit" is when it comes to the "big list of no-no's". I don't want to get political, but let's face it, numismatics is a self policed hobby. and much like the deadbolt on your front door - the laws are only there to keep honest people out. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
5324 Posts |
Just to show the difference of two government agency the RCM and BOC, I purchased some test notes and proofs at public auctions, the BOC still claims copyright issues on some of these notes so I have to be careful of how to resell these types of currency while the RCM just seems to don't care, or just nick pick which coins they go after. If the RCM granted permission for these counter strikes, that's really unbelievable |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
999 Posts |
Have you ever heard of someone getting locked up or even given a wrist slap for counter-stamping? I doubt JOP asked permission and probably Citadel didn't either. What would the RCM gain by saying "yes go ahead and counter-stamp"? They aren't getting royalties on this. |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
3733 Posts |
this is the reply I received from Citadel Coins..
We did a series of counterstamps in 2017 commemorate Canada's 150th anniversary. Some were done on 1967 dollar coins, some on 50 cent pieces, as these were the last silver coins that Canada struck for circulation.
The snowflake was chosen to represent Canadian winter. We struck less than 100 of these pieces, they were sold for $50.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1463 Posts |
It's my understanding that the spirit of the law regarding defacing has to do with many years ago when gold and silver was used, the law was to prevent people from cutting a chunk off for themselves.
When people were Spocking 5$ bills bank of Canada even clarified that it was not ilegal, though not recommended as a retailer may not recognize it.
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Replies: 18 / Views: 3,668 |
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Posted 06/12/2019 7:58 pm
