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New Member
 United States
37 Posts |
Grape than why can't anybody explain to me in somewhat complete sentences why this is not a Henning? When my main goal is to gain knowledge the vague responses don't get me anywhere.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
Sorry, add me to the non Henning club. The damage to the R is pretty clearly PMD, similar damage to the surrounding letters. Your drawing the conclusion thet this is a Henning largely based on the R, correct, then if he did use the same die as his prior counterfeits, why is this not identical to the others. Edit: also not seeing any signs of the "centers up die crack", again just damage. There is such a thing as coincidence on coins, especially more heavily worn and damaged ones. It's called Pareidolia. As Coinfrog said, why would he counterfeit a nickel with a future date when he had the ability to create any past date. He had just a little bit of sense the first time around to not release a lot of the more easily red flagged currency, so why draw attention to ones self by releasing thousands of coins from the future. Does not add up. Send it off to a TPG ( third party grader) and see what the outcome is. We're all just trying to help (and save you some time and money). Good luck! Edited by Ty2020b
09/05/2020 01:03 am
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
8939 Posts |
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I am a living example of turn my life around and not letting the past Define me. Glad to hear it. Quote:
Grape than why can't anybody explain to me in somewhat complete sentences why this is not a Henning? Because they weren't made in 64. Is it possible he made new fakes after prison. Yes. The chance, 0.00001%. When you mess with money big brother turns his eye on you for the rest of your life. He wouldn't be stupid enough to attempt it a second time. But, if you insist. Quote:
Couldn't have Henning realistically taken a 1944 obverse die and turned the 44 into 64? That's not how hubbing works. You can't overhub a die without it turning out like either the 1943/2 Jefferson or 1942/1 Merc dime. Quote:
Or could this be a whole new set of dies completely? Possible? Yes. Probable? No. Quote:
Notice the faint shadowy outline of the huge crack in between U and S going into roof of building That looks like a scratch to me. Quote:
Some examples that I've came across have matching markers. Those have die cracks and polish lines which are raised, yours is incuse. Beyond that your coin is littered with gashes and gouges. And has heavy corrosion |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
As far as I know, all Henning nickels are noticeably overweight. Yours is not. Quote:
I want a couple people who really know their stuff on Hennings to provide evidence or at least educated opinions as to why this coin isn't a Henning. You can't prove a negative. I believe the burden of proof is on you to show that it is a Henning. The coin you show exhibits nothing abnormal for a well circulated/abused genuine 1964 nickel from the US Mint. In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Moderator
 United States
56855 Posts |
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Rest in Peace
United States
18456 Posts |
Let me see if I'm comprehending this the right way. Your saying he counterfeited a 1964-D Jefferson nickel ? The most common date & mint of early Jeff's . Why ?. Just my opinion ,but if there was a 6th date it wouldn't have been 1964 .  |
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Moderator
United States
54283 Posts |
The FBI confiscated everything that Henning had not dumped in a river to hide the evidence.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4618 Posts |
It seems that you are using the damaged R in PLURIBUS on this coin as a comparison point to the Henning nickel's die flaw. I did an quick overlay animation of a known Henning nickel to one of the images you posted. It looks like the shape and location of the hole in the leg of the R is not a match on this coin. It's also a little higher on the leg of the R on the Henning. Hope this helps.  ANA ID: 3203813 - CONECA ID: N-5637 Clean a coin that may be worth collecting? Please DON'T! When in doubt, leave it dirty!! 
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
Henning wanted his coins to slip anonymously into circulation, not stand out by carrying a date a dozen years in the future!  Edited by Coinfrog
09/05/2020 4:33 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7516 Posts |
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So send it in to PCGS. Bottom line  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts |
I feel like we need at least one good Back To The Future meme in this topic....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
I have a Henning. This is not one. As mentioned he got busted in 54 and the FBI confiscated EVERYTHING. There were no dies for him to go back to when he got out. simple.
All your going on about a tough life because someone broke the law and is paying the price is irrelevant to the salient facts.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1667 Posts |
Henning Started on dollar bills and got busted. he moved to nickels as a test to see if he would get caught doing it, but even he said himself it was costing him 3-1/2cents to make a nickel. When he was caught, the feds seized 10 cent, 25 cent, 50 cent dies, as well as $5.00 plates that he had in his possession.
Henning was arrested in 1955 in Cleveland and pleaded guilty to counterfeiting nickels. He was sentenced to three years in jail with a $5,000 fine. Another three years were tacked on to his sentence for previously counterfeiting $5 bills.
Also, I think he did one year, got a funny look at some banks, and then made a few other years to mix up his deposits instead of entire bags of the same dates.
he wasn't buying a newspaper or something, and directly placing them in circulation, he was cashing them into banks in bulk and hoping to get over on the banks $10 $20-$50 in a pop, so likely all his dates were made around the same time and after trying for larger denominations and finding that nickels were a safer bet, finding banks asked, "why do you have so many all the same date?"
As he told it, he lost money doing it because he never did it long enough to recover his costs before he got caught. No idea what he did after getting out, but I seriously doubt he took another shot at it considering each time he LOST in the endeavor. The counterfeit $1 bills he was caught immediately, dime, quarter and half he would have been caught had he not used silver, which is why he settled on nickels, and also why he didn't do a $5 because he got busted on the $1.
if you take him at his word, he was getting the blanks from the same place the mint did, for 3.5 cents each, then all his labor for each one and profit were 1.5 cents and would take forever to make up the thousands spent to mass produce them and start turning them into banks just to recover his money.
I doubt he went back to it after getting out of jail just wasn't worth the effort. his seized coin blanks were recycled and used by the mint in 1956 after adding in the required amount of nickel to the mix. Henning's nickels were struck from Monel metal, 79.1% copper, 20.5% nickel, 0.4% iron
According to the mint there's are made of Cupro-Nickel: 25% Ni, Balance Cu
so, metal testing should indicate the presence of iron in a Henning Nickel example as well as a lower amount of nickel than is Mint specifications. and the weight should be off also to a degrebut not necessarily.
No idea what he did after getting out, but I doubt he went back to counterfeiting, he was really bad at it and got caught before he could even make any money doing it.
Possibly the 6th die pair he never used and was captured by the government with everything else when he got arrested which is why it's said to exist, much like a dime a quarter and a half. his dies existed, not sure if the coins do.
Anyways.
Edited by Big-Kingdom
09/08/2020 11:40 am
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
94367 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
987 Posts |
Nice write-up Big-Kingdom, and nice stuff from others too. Interesting and educational thread.
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Replies: 28 / Views: 3,703 |
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First Page
Posted 09/05/2020 12:59 am
