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Pillar of the Community
United States
3402 Posts |
he probably coulda gotten $30 bucks without "toning" it up.
KK
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I normally ignore the rainbow toning, when it comes to silver coins and the above postings in this thread clearly explain why. Heat treating for artificial toning is cheap and easy for the skilled, and the reason why I an always suspicious. With the toned coins pictured I would expect them to eventually end up as black appearing disks, rather than full brown coins. Not so nice to see black eyes in an otherwise nice collection.  Over the long term, toning such as seen here is unstable anyway. |
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Valued Member
Canada
235 Posts |
The colors are due to Oven Cleaner, probably heavy duty (and use CARE or somesuch on Copper coins for the 'Blue' look). They don't always look like the OP's former 1902, but it's an indication that it happened. There's a former ANACS AU55 190X IHC Straight edge clip/broadstrike, and after a blast of o/c it's now in a ( TPG) holder as MS64. Oven cleaner is an organic-stripper; it's been used to clean-up old Diamond and Gold rings with marvelous effect Edited by whatdowehavehere
01/02/2021 1:08 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
Yep, it's his coin, he can do what he wants with it.
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
5191 Posts |
At a certain point, you have to ask yourself: what's the difference between one of these "Disneyland Colored" coins and an exactly similarly toned counterfeit from China? If you buy coins because you like rainbows, might as well buy coins from China for an order of magnitude less.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
This is great discussion, I've really enjoyed reading everyone's comments on this topic. I recently posted about my own distaste for dipped coins (E-Z-est coin cleaner, MS70 industrial strength coin brightener, etc), which in a way is somewhat analogous to this artificial toning. Aside from some higher grade coins that have been completely ruined by harsh abrasive cleaning (and their prices reflect that), I'm becoming a bit jaded due to the fact that so many of the offerings out there are dipped coins (that are bought/sold at market prices and approved by TPGs). In both cases (AT and dipped coins), the result is the same: quality original skin coins are being taken off the market forever. I get what some folks are saying, that this will only increase the value of original coins that are left. But I think this perspective is somewhat based on where you are in your collecting journey. If you've primarily assembled your main collection already, and are happy with it, then maybe you don't care what others do with coins you're not looking to buy anyway. If however you are in the midst of attempting to build a collection of classic US coins, and you just see more and more harshly cleaned, dipped, and artificially toned coins, and whatever remaining quality coins are getting more and more expensive, then...  Quote:
For dinosaurs like me, the word is "leave it alone." For some, though, the word seems to be "strip it, retone it, and make it into a work of art." I think the attitude change affects TPGs, too. As long as AT coins sell, people will continue to do this.
This change in collecting can also be seen by the mint's products. The NCLT garbage peddled today reflects the demand for creativity over natural condition. Consider the endless variety of "gotta have it" proof offerings, colorized coins, and medallic art palmed off as coins (like the baseball commems).
I'm a dinosaur, and dinos gonna saur. I know others see it differently. I do wonder, though, if we are nearing the end of classical coin collecting as a hobby.  " If all of the antique furniture were stripped and refinished to look 'new', there would be no reason to buy antique furniture." https://coinweek.com/us-coins/colle...oins-part-3/Edited by one_fine_dime
01/02/2021 7:47 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3755 Posts |
Quote:
At a certain point, you have to ask yourself: what's the difference between one of these "Disneyland Colored" coins and an exactly similarly toned counterfeit from China? If you buy coins because you like rainbows, might as well buy coins from China for an order of magnitude less. Seriously? You equate a toned coin to a counterfeit coin? Wow. In this case it is obviously purposeful toning. But had you not sold the coin to him, would you even know that? Unless you can do a chemical analysis and find remains of a substance, its really anyones guess. Including graders. My avatar is a toned IHC. I know for a fact it wasnt purposeful. The collection was owned by a HEAVY smoker. I had to remove all the coins from their albums and toss the albums they smelled so strong. 3/4 of the coins (all different types) were heavily toned. I left a 67 Kennedy in the back window of my car all summer. At the end of the summer it was blue toned. Now, I did that on purpose, but to prove a point. Many collections sit in storage with no or shoddy climate control. That alone will tone coins. As for dipping a coin. That can be done without anyone being able to tell. Now, if a coin is over dipped, or dipped many times, then it shows. But a single dip to remove stuff cant be told outside of chemical analysis. And then only if whoever did the dipping didnt rinse the coin very well. Personally, I dont really care if the toning is purposeful or accidental. As long as the coin isn't harshly cleaned and then toned to cover it (THAT is fairly easy to tell) I am not going to sweat it a whole lot. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
591 Posts |
 Quote:
As for dipping a coin. That can be done without anyone being able to tell. Well...this was my recent post about a dipped coin. I'll bet you and anyone else can certainly "tell" the difference. http://goccf.com/t/389400I'm not sure it's really a matter of being able to tell, because if one couldn't tell then there would be no reason to dip the coin at all. I think a coin can be dipped and then passed off as an original unadulterated coin...isn't that the point you're really making? An AU coin can be dipped and voilą, you have an UNC coin, all shiny and new again. Edited by one_fine_dime
01/03/2021 07:53 am
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
5400 Posts |
You CAN dip an AU coin , but it sure won't make it shiny and new again .
It will still show wear . It simply becomes a dipped AU coin .
Also you can use restorative measures on a mint state or even a
Circulated coin that will absolutely get straight graded.
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Valued Member
United States
121 Posts |
I perfer the brown color coin! Compared to the colored look.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5191 Posts |
Quote:
Seriously? You equate a toned coin to a counterfeit coin? Wow. The US Mint in the 19th Century did not produce rainbow colored coins. Therefore, by definition, Chinese rainbow colored coins are not counterfeits since they are not based on something that existed. They are pure fantasy coins. Of course, the Chinese should not pass these coins off as actual 19th century coins but accurately label them as "fantasy coins". It is a bit like buying a reproduction of a van Gogh painting. You can buy them online or in any art shop. Nobody is whining about that. The real thing is still hanging in a museum and you know you bought a reproduction. Edited by NumisEd
01/03/2021 12:28 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5675 Posts |
Counterfeits are coins produced with intent to deceive. Chinese counterfeits of 18th century US coins are not fantasy coins, regardless of the amount of toning, they are purely counterfeits. They are not analogous to labeled print reproductions of art masterpieces. |
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Valued Member
Canada
235 Posts |
"I recently posted about my own distaste for dipped coins (E-Z-est coin cleaner, MS70 industrial strength coin brightener, etc), which in a way is somewhat analogous to this artificial toning."
E-Z-est will tone silver coins in ways you can only dream of, and they Look Good... I discovered this decades ago when some spilled on my desk (a Friday), which had on it a PL 1896-O M$D on a piece of paper, and this was not discovered until the next Monday. The paper acted as a blotter
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5191 Posts |
To play devils advocate, I am stupid to attempt to sell my left-over Half Dimes as is, or should I cater to the obvious demand of toned coins and also oven-bake them with EZ-est, MS70 or any other industrial strength chemical? After al, why should I be the sucker who gets less $$? After al, as many in this thread pressed upon me: "Artificial Toning does not equate Counterfeit". Edited by NumisEd
01/03/2021 4:07 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1267 Posts |
Fascinating reading some of these posts.
I find it curious that some equate originality on 100+ year old copper or silver coins with how they appeared when minted. This very same philosophy sentenced millions of coins to being dipped in our lifetime......and wiped by the generation before.
All for the sake of making them appear as they were when they were minted.
The processes used to recreate the original appearance not only alter the surfaces, they often strip layers off of them.
Unless placed in a vacuum, all coins start deteriorating from the moment they are minted.
For what it's worth, the coin in question in this thread was treated with MS70.
Rick Snow talks a lot about this process for those that are curious and want to learn a little more.
While I don't necessarily agree with everything that Rick says (I would prefer that most coins be left alone) it is a fascinating read.
The bottom line is always collect what appeals to you.
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Replies: 24 / Views: 6,264 |
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Posted 01/02/2021 09:49 am
