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Testing Silver Question.

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Pillar of the Community
United States
2004 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  9:10 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list
ThatCoinDude beat me to it. I was going to suggest the ice cube test as well. I really doubt there is any reason to believe the jewelry isn't .925 sterling. Now if it were gold vs gold plated that might be more of a reason to investigate further.
Pillar of the Community
United States
4680 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  9:58 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Ty2020b to your friends list

Quote:
I really doubt there is any reason to believe the jewelry isn't .925 sterling.


There are plenty of plated silver pieces out there with 925 stamped on them. Extremely easy to do. Another workaround for this being that they stamp the clasp 925, may ensure the clasp is 925, but not the entire piece. A shady scheme done by knockoffs, and let's not forget, clasps can easily be changed.

That being said, so far odds are in your favor, and I'd give the ice cube test a try next as others pointed out. The only real definitive would be an XRF or silver test kit, but that's seems to be a bit overkill.
Valued Member
United States
191 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  10:37 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Safaga to your friends list
I had never heard of the ice cube test prior to this string. Please, could someone provide a comprehensive description of how to perform the ice cube test? And how and why it works? Thanks
Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  10:47 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list
Silver is the most conductive metal there is. If in contact with something cold, a silver object will rapidly pump heat into it.
I've found that if you hold a silver coin (like my Morgan dollar pocket piece ) flat against your skin and put a bit of snow on it, it becomes freezing to the touch just about instantly. It's pretty cool.
Valued Member
United States
143 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  10:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Reedbeard08 to your friends list
Thanks for the physics lesson here, everyone - ice cube testing is a really cool idea to make it happen cheaply :)
Valued Member
United States
191 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  11:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Safaga to your friends list
Thanks. I understand that silver is very conductive of heat. But I'm curious for more details. What is the specific procedure for the test? Say, for example, I have a silver quarter and a nickel. How do I perform the test for each coin? Meaning the procedure. By that I mean, for example, do I lay each on a table and put an ice cube on each? And what will be the observable difference that distinguishes the silver coin from the nickel coin?

But then, say, I only have one foreign coin of unknown composition. And then I perform the test. What will be the telltale that it is silver and not another metal?
Pillar of the Community
United States
4963 Posts
 Posted 04/29/2021  11:35 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Numisma to your friends list
Yeah, just setting them on a table with ice cubes on top is fine. The difference is in how quickly the ice melts. Try it with a silver quarter and a clad quarter to control the other variables; you should find that the ice on the silver coin melts faster.
Pillar of the Community
United States
2004 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  05:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list
Sue you also asked about performing a specific gravity test. That too would give you your answer but it takes more patience, time and accuracy along with a scale capable of reading to at least 100th of a gram. The other problem with this is how to suspend such an object in water without it touching the bottom and sides of the container. It can be a real pain with just a coin let alone this bracelet. If you decide to perform this test you should get a specific gravity result of 10.3 to 10.4 indicating sterling. I think the ice cube test is your best option or have a jeweler test it with xrf.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
126 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  08:29 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SueCoin to your friends list
Thank you all for your help. Will try ice cube test and lest you know
Valued Member
United Kingdom
126 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  09:10 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SueCoin to your friends list
Sue's husband. I get the thermal conduction inertia on metals. My last wedding ring I gave to my daughter as I walked out was Platinum. And I used to show her how it went from body temperature to cold ambient in literally a second or so after pulling it off my finger. It had low mass. Its stored energy was calculatable on its weight.
Sue did an ice cube test but I pointed out the metal would have to have energy to transfer to the ice cube. Example if I froze her silver with the ice cube the system is unity and I would not expect a visible effect as they approached ambient temperature together. The metal would have to be raised to a known temperature and exposed to the frozen water. Even then rate of change of temperature is far more important as determined thermal transfer. Frozen Rubber would take a while. The Silver she tested was at an unknown cold Scotland temperature against a known water in solid phase.
I did like watching a 2P coin next to it melting it's cube rapidly. Despite being a fraction of the dragons mass. The coin was flat on the same plate and able to heatsink into the plate.
I'm often wrong but that is a very difficult system of metallurgy. Probably backed up a post I seen from someone that clearly knows what He or She knows and never heard of it!
Grant
Valued Member
United Kingdom
126 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  10:16 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SueCoin to your friends list
Mister T! Archimedes shouted Eureka! The objects position in a vessel of known initial volume at a known temperature do not depend on position. On the floor or against its sides will not alter displacement. Its just really a measurement issue. It only establishes volume and it is a amazing concept. Then weight. Sue can measure to 100th gram if she remembers to dry it. Density is then established. Dependng on what what planet she makes her measurements.
Given Earth's variation in Gravitation field I am no expert but I think precious metal is not weighed. Rather it's force in Newton's is determined. I have to tell her at some point scales are an illusion. Mass not weight.
Grant
Pillar of the Community
United States
2004 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  3:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list
Grant, you seem well versed in science and theory but I urge you to try to conduct a specific gravity test on a coin immersed in water. Try it completely suspended without touching the bottom or sides and record the reading of the displacement. Then try the same test with the coin touching the bottom or the sides. In my experience of doing this many times, there is indeed a difference in the reading. The test leaves no room for error because even a miscalculation of 0.01 grams will significantly alter the result.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
126 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  8:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SueCoin to your friends list
Mr T I pity the fool! I guess we are like you and Murdoch in the actual A Team. At least you tolerate me and hopefully drive a huge black red striped interceptor.
We need to actual get into this in depth (rubbish Pun) theoretical displacement concept relies on the for example metal object. It will shrink or expand with temperature. Affecting the displacement of the immersion media. Water for example is charged so we notice a surficant phenomena around the edges. It's the water molecular properties as they are stable in th he centre as they push equally. At the edges Surface Tension is observed shoving water up as the molecules have no neighbours to balance for example Capillary Action forcing water up a thin tube.
You are also clearly an extremely knowledgeable person. Am sure between the two of us we can work out the discrepancies you have observed.
I doubt they will give us Nobel Peace Prize but Hannibal will chew a Cigar and anounce I love it when a plan comes together!
Love your stuff Mr T. Food for thought.
Grant
Pillar of the Community
United States
2004 Posts
 Posted 04/30/2021  9:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add MisterT to your friends list
Grant, I have a feeling we are on the same chapter but perhaps different pages. What I mean is that the specific gravity test I am referring to is one which compares the weight of the coin in its "dry" state vs the weight of the coin in solution (distilled water). The weight in solution is then divided into the "dry" weight to give you the specific gravity reading. I have a feeling that you may be measuring the actual volume of fluid displaced by the immersion. Most of the time my coins fall within the correct weight parameters and there is usually no need for this type of testing. On the other hand when a coin is above or below the normal weight range, I like to verify it with this specific gravity test. I was able to detect a counterfeit Trade dollar using this method because it came back with a specific gravity of 8.72 which is more like copper. sure enough when I filed the edge of the coin it was copper underneath.
Valued Member
United Kingdom
126 Posts
 Posted 05/01/2021  5:41 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add SueCoin to your friends list
Humbled. That's a very fair assessment of my if am honest naivity. I get it now. I used to only consider it testing my banger cars battery acid. I humbly apologise Mr T. Am deep in study on your actual reality. I actually am wrong all the time!
Luckily I have friends like you.
Grant
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