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 Replies: 22 / Views: 10,216 |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
10284 Posts |
 Rush Job! Here are a couple coins in a 1965 SMS that are at least heavily frosted or light cameo.  Here is a reverse light cameo 1967 SMS Half  Here is a reverse of a 1965 SMS nickel, it is actually more frosted than image shows. and another 65 nickel reverse but blurry.   Here is a quarter in 1965 SMS light to medium cameo.  I kinda hurried to get these up. I have more but wanted to catch up on the topic. I should be taking a nap. LOL! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
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where I believe that the finish on all these sets are Quite different( judging from the ones I have) If Biokemist has seen only ONE uncirculated SMS half that looks like it was plucked from a bank roll, then his opinion is true. For your opinion to hold true, you would have to have seen ALL of the SMS half dollars. Just my 50 cents. (inflation)  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
The ones struck from completely fresh dies do appear different. Once you are out of the early die states, they lose the mirrors and the cameo appearance and just look like normal business strikes(albeit with slightly better strike quality)- that applies to greater than half the mintage. You can "respectfully disagree" all you want, that does not change the FACT that not all of the sets have cameos and/or mirrored fields.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
BIO, I would like to clear up or clarify a point I was trying to make, This is that I do not think it is almost impossible to determine a SMS coin from a business strike, once circulated. You have made a very broad statement, and I was just giving my opinion as to the same. If you really think a SMS- 1965-67 coin looks the same as a business strike,AFTER CIRCULATING this is your opinion however I think this is like saying a proof coin, once circulated looks like a business strike coin and this simply is not true.The finish is a proof like mirrored look and is far from any business strike. Now if you drag said coin behind a car or do some extraordinary damage to the coin, then IMO, you would be right, but just ordinary handling, IMO, even a newbie could see there is a difference between the two. Maybe I was not clear and this happens alot, to me, if so please excuse me for not stating so, if I was clear and you feel you can not tell the difference, well lets take the photos from above for an example, are you really suggesting that you could not tell them apart from a business strike once circulated?. That is my only point and look forward to more input on this subject,  ps: This is all from the statement you made "Once circulated, it would be almost impossible to determine an SMS strike from a business strike." |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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Bio, I have collected many of these sets for all years and would have to Respectfully dis-agree, where I believe that the finish on all these sets are Quite different( judging from the ones I have), even once circulated the finish can be told apart from a standard business strike by even the newest of collectors, Yet they are sometimes confused by the TPG's, and I am talking about the top four. (High end business strikes removed from original rolls will often come back as SMS coins. Low end SMS coins were the dies are getting worn often can't be told from business strikes either, but they seldom get sent in.) Hardly the newest of collectors. Maybe the TPG's should high some newbies totell the SMS coins from the business strikes for them. (They had the same problem in 2005 with the satin finish mint set coins. High end busines strikes were being slabbed as satin finish, and and mint set coins where the finish was poor were being slabbed as very high grade, and very valuable, business strikes. Smart dealers and collectors were searching through the mint sets that year looking for those coins that DIDN'T have the satin finish to try and get them into business strike holders.) |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
conder101, I think the situation you have explained is a unique and interesting one and do not think this is the norm. I would ask you( and do not know you other than reading your posts, I believe you are an experienced coin numismatist) from the clearer pictures above that wd has posted, do you think you could tell them apart from a business strike, after they were circulated?
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Pillar of the Community
United States
716 Posts |
I just found one today in a teller's drawer. Here is the pictures. Looking closely it is much more reflective than a regular strike but not quite as the 69s I have. The coin on the left is the sms. I would say Morgan is right. But I am just very happy to have found this baby in the wild Image:  65smsob.jpg54.5 KB Image: 65smsre.jpg56.85 KB. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
Yinzi50, very nice find, I too would be very happy had I found that coin in the wild, be well, Mike PS; Would anyone care to comment on the question I had put out there above, Do you think you could tell a SMS coin from a business strike once it has been circulated? an example or two are in the posts above... |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
The examples Wheezy posted are of cameo frosted examples and are nicer than usual coins (from what I can see). Those you could probably possibly tell even lightly circulated, but could they be told from an exceptional business strike? And can an average SMS coin be told from a better than average business strike? I don't think so. Can an average SMS be told from a typical business strike? Sure! But since I don't think you can consistantly tell an average SMS from an exceptional business strike, that is like asking "Can you tell an average businss strike from an exceptional business strike?"
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
Conder101, this is a very good, concise point, I would then rephrase my original question, do you or anyone else here on this site think you can tell the difference between an average SMS coin and an average business strike coin once they were circulated? By average I mean nothing special, buy a mint set and a SMS and remove a coin from each and once they were circulated do you think that you could tell them apart, I will say that IMHO, there is no contest, the SMS coins finish would out last the business strike, in so much that you would be able to tell them apart for a long time...... Edited by Morgans Dad
01/25/2009 12:37 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
Conder101, you write above "The examples Wheezy posted are of cameo frosted examples and are nicer than usual coins (from what I can see). Those you could probably possibly tell even lightly circulated" Your statement clearly implies that "the cameo frosted examples you could probably possibly tell" to me means that the better coins"frosted cameos" you might possibly be able to tell apart, you have seemingly already answered my new question and I can not believe, IMO, an experienced coin collector would have any problem telling the two apart. I know you layed out the example that the TPG'S could not tell in some instances however, we all know that anyone could send a coin in to a company and receive it back with a grade and break that exact coin out of the slab and send the same coin back to the same company and receive a totally different grade from the first, that said I am looking for an honest, open minded opinion from you and from anyone who would care to contribute to this topic ... |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1807 Posts |
In 1965, to control a shortage of coins for circulation, the Treasury decided to discontinue the production of both Proof and Mint sets. To not completely disregard collectors, the Bureau of the Mint issued what it called Special Mint sets, which contained coins that were actually refinished Uncirculated pieces. The "special" finish added to these coins was much brighter than that placed on coins for circulation, but lacked the brilliant luster of genuine Proof coins. In 1966 and 1967, the Special Mint set was again the only set offered to collectors. Packaging for this set was different, as the coins came in a clear plastic holder and were held in place by raised rings of plastic.
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Valued Member
 United States
290 Posts |
Thank you everyone for responding to my original post. I ordered a few JFKs off e-bay, and I can tell you that there is a difference immediately between the uncirculated, the SMS and the proof.
I am looking at:
(1) a proof 1968 - very shiny and mirrorlike;
(2) an unc. 1968 D in the bag - clean, but a bit dull; and
(3) a 1967 SMS - shiny, not quite mirrorlike as a proof, but closer to the finish of a proof than an uncirculated coin.
The SMS coins I just got are definitely nicer in their finish than an uncirculated. Easy to tell the difference - at least the specimens I got. Thanks again for the education.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5625 Posts |
Novillero, I did not mean to hijack your original post and hope you see why I did this, because under the understanding of a better education for all who are interested, IMHO, I believe this is directly related to your topic. I see you have seen the difference and am glad you could feed into the on going thirst for knowledge and a clearer understanding, be well, Mike PS: To whom it may concern, please feel free to give your opinions.... |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
17884 Posts |
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I would then rephrase my original question, do you or anyone else here on this site think you can tell the difference between an average SMS coin and an average business strike coin once they were circulated? Well if you could actually prove that the circulated "average SMS" started life as an SMS coin then yes you can tell the difference. The problem is you can't prove that circulated "average SMS" didn't start life as an exceptional business strike. So you are back to the effective equivalent question "Can you tell the difference between a lightly circulated exceptional business strike and a lightly circulated average business strike?" |
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Posted 01/22/2009 12:14 pm
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