Now Canada Has Its Version Of The CAC Sticker.

I'll sticker your coin if you'll sticker mine!

I'm so old, I remember when it was buy the coin, not the holder.....now it's buy the holder and the sticker......oh well, it;s ok, if someone else has paid for the grading and sticker, because I'm only paying for the coin.

(and let's not get sucked into the OGH PCGS or two digit ICCS vortex)

Here's 2 articles that I have seen and, even though one says Burlington, it is NOT me:

https://cnascoin.ca/

https://coinweek.com/education/coin...in-stickers/

https://canadiancoinnews.com/canadi...nce-service/

https://www.coinworld.com/news/us-c...sticker.html

I think that it's getting ridiculous for people wanting you to get your wallet out to try to prove "my dog's better than your dog, la la la" so the tune goes.

I'm going to be the devils advocate here. Probably because I really like being heaped with abuse. Lol.

If you look down to the US you can see that CAC is obviously VERY popular. I think there are a few reasons for that.

I believe that one of them is that the main grading companies all have a degree of inconsistency to them that some people feel the need for some reassurance. I don't buy US coins but I have to say I've never really seen a CAC approved coin that I disagreed with. (I'm sure there are some, but I don't think very many) I feel like they've done a good job in only stickering coins that are obviously better than average for the grade. They've also done a tremendous job of marketing!

One of the other things that is different now from even 20 or 30 years ago is a lot more coins get bought without having the coin in front of you. Online sales, whether through auctions, ebay, IG, FB or just basic websites have surged. We all know that pictures can be deceiving online and problems can be minimized or even eliminated in carefully taken pictures. That CAC sticker tells an online buyer in the US that the pictures aren't deceiving and they are going to be happy with the coin, not upset at some unseen hairlines.

I am also going to assume there are more high end buyers out there who don't know the grades as well as most high end buyers did in the old days. Those buyers like TPG's for the assist they get in giving them an idea of the grade and I'd imagine they really appreciate the CAC sticker telling them that the coin in that holder is above average and represents the stated grade quite well.

I think it's easy as an older, experienced coin buyer and seller to look down your nose at TPG's and companies like CAC, but most people can't grade as well as you. A lot of them know just enough to be dangerous. It's easy to say that they should just learn, but if you live in a remote community like I do that has NO coin dealers or anything to help with that, how do you do that? You can do some online but a lot of that can be misleading or even wrong. I'm learning to grade as I go and I make lots of mistakes. I look back on old posts from years ago and and shudder at how stupid I was, but we all have to learn somehow. I don't have the ability to go to coin shows all year long like some of you have and do. I think it's fair to recognize that some people don't have a lot of opportunity to learn except slowly over time and let them appreciate the TPG's and the CAC's or CNAS's of the world. It may not be for you, but I don't think it's fair to say that they are a waste of money for everyone just because that's true for you. For every experienced collector/grader out there like some of you there are hundreds or even thousands of modestly educated collectors out there with a lot less knowledge who appreciate the help. And obviously buyers in the US agree because they can easily show how valuable a CAC sticker can be on a coin that has one. They are worth way more than they cost on virtually any coin they are on.

So in Canada I have no idea how CNAS will do. I'm sure, much like CAC in the beginning, it will be a very slow process to get established. It will obviously take years, and maybe even decades. I think our market is much smaller than the US, so it's not possible for it to be as large as CAC is in the US, but I think it can be an assist to modestly educated Canadian buyers, particularly those who shop online.

I do know the guys who operate CNAS, although not well. I've met them at one coin show. They are young and very passionate about coin collecting and grading and I give them kudos for putting themselves out there and trying to get established in our market. I will also say that despite being less than half my age, they are much, much better at grading coins than I am. I've heard people denigrate them because they are young, but they have put way more into learning how to grade coins well than 99% of the collectors out there and they know what they are doing. They have an eye for premium raw coins that I could only dream of. If you want to form an educated opinion of what they do, get to know them.

By all means don't use their service if it's not for you, but I don't think it's fair to put down what they are doing when there are lots of collectors out there who could use the help.

Well said Levaril. I have never used CAC or CNAS but I do believe they add value and confidence to people who buy coins online (which is how most coins are transacted these days). I've never met the CNAS guys in person but I have talked to them on instagram and they are all very well versed young men. I know Will a bit better than the others and have more confidence in his opinion than I do in CCCS, ICCS or PCGS's opinion regarding grade, strike, etc.. In particular, you would be hard pressed to find someone with more specimen knowledge than him. These guys are helping to evolve our beloved hobby and for this I am thankful!

I agree that certification makes no sense until you hit a certain threshold value. For ICCS I try not to send anything I think will be worth less than $100. For PCGS it's at least $200, unless it's something that I want in a slab to protect it better because I really like it or it's to fill out a registry set that I want to complete. So yes, a lot of coins fall under those values. Most even. I'm not sure it's quite as slender a slice of the market as you think though. A lot of PL and SP coins in higher grades are worth a lot of money these days. MS coins in even lower MS grades are worth a fair bit. If it's going into an auction it pretty much has to be in some kind of holder to realize it's full value these days. Canadian coins are selling at auction every week in the hundreds or thousands depending on which auctions happen. Most bidders will be remote and not seeing anything in hand and will rely on the TPG's opinion on that coin. They have to recognize it's just an opinion and even more so have to be at least somewhat knowledgeable about the differences between TPG's for Canadian coins. ICCS ignores light cleaning and when they grade cameo they only look at the obverse. They also net grade occasionally. PCGS doesn't have a problem with dipped coins but will detail a variety of things they don't like. They tend to be decent at grading MS/PL/SP 63+ coins but aren't that great at AU or lower typically. (they overgrade them mostly) NGC overgrades almost any coin they touch, but occasionally gets it right. Don't count on it being right though when you buy without having it in hand. Older holders are typically (but not always) more conservatively graded from all TPG's. As always, buyer beware. Something like CAC or CNAS can help with a bit of the whole buyer beware thing IMHO when you buy remotely.

So personally I tend to buy coins with enough value that they should be slabbed. I like PCGS. I have some I keep in ICCS flips too, but mostly PCGS. That's my personal preference more than anything else. And yeah if you are collecting a group of coins to just have a whole set and a lot of them are worn $10-$50 coins then there is absolutely no point in sending those to any TPG. Complete waste of money. Keep them in a nice album and enjoy them up close and personal. If you prefer your higher value coins raw so you can take them out to admire without the slab getting in the way, more power to you. There is definitely no reason to get anything graded if you don't want it graded.

Where to start? Lol.

Ultimately one very central fact that can't be overstated - it is imperative that you get educated on grading coins if you are going to be spending a lot of money acquiring them. If you don't you will waste an awful lot of money you don't need to picking up coins that aren't what you think they are. There are some very expensive lessons ahead of you if you don't. Learn grading. Learn to distinguish between varieties. Learn what things might be done to coins to reduce or artificially increase their value. Read up about Cook and what he did to the very nice coins he picked up.

Obviously you can think what you want about CAC or any other similar service. I personally don't think it's the be all or end all, but I think it can help. It seems like an awful lot of collectors in the US agree because there is a direct correlation between a coin having a CAC sticker and higher values realized in auctions and personal transactions at coin dealers. I doubt CAC is infallible, but they can certainly add an extra pair of eyes or two to the equation and provide a bit more certainty in the grade.

If you are a younger collector who admits they don't grade well and only buys on the internet, why would you be against any of this? In theory you are exactly the audience they are looking for and helping with this service. Knowing that pictures are often misleading and grades can typically be all over the place when you're buying on the internet, what is the downside to having a few more guys look at those coins to confirm the grade? I'm honestly not sure why so much negativity. You sound bitter, for no reason that I can figure out.

Buying raw coins over the internet is an unmitigated disaster. I've tried and it frequently goes quite poorly. Most of what is offered is something that will only get details or comments by TPG's. So then you pretty much have to try to buy graded coins where possible, in an effort to not get ripped off. But how do you know whether or not that an expensive ICCS graded MS66 coin has been cleaned or not, since they frequently ignore cleaning? Or that the PCGS EF-45 1872-H Canadian 50 cent piece actually meets the grade on the slab? (unlikely!) I suppose you could just not care and accept that you will get whatever you get, or you could perhaps think that another set of eyes saying that the grade being represented is accurate is not a terrible idea.

Obviously I'm pretty opinionated about this. If I was in the US I would be quite happy to buy CAC coins online, knowing that I was getting a well graded product. They don't make money if nobody believes that their stickers have value, so you can believe they are pretty careful not to sticker something that doesn't deserve it.

Ironically you mention CAC grading coins, which they are starting to do some time soon, so you will have a chance to see how that plays out. I can't quite imagine myself. :)




Well if it was correctly graded, then I guess at least you would know that. Believe me, there are lots that aren't correctly graded. The CAC or CNAS premiums aren't that significant. If you're talking about coins worth hundreds or thousands of dollars it's a drop in the bucket. PCGS and NGC premiums are significantly more. ICCS is cheaper but still more unless maybe you're doing a massive bulk sub.

Fortunately you have the ability to never buy a coin with a sticker on it and show them with your wallet what you think. :)

Okay now I'm going to duck out of this thread as I'm supposed to be working right now and I think I've blathered on enough about all this. You all get the idea I'm sure!

Peace.