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Walking Back From 1600 With Dated Coins

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 Posted 09/29/2025  07:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list

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If we are on 1148 AD today, then here is a Zangid Dirham dated 557 AH, which I have corresponding to 1161/1162 AD. Not sure which of those we will count it for in this thread, but I've also got a similar piece dated 556 to post when we have this first one sorted.


I would think that apart from a week or so, 557 AH is entirely within 1162 C.E.
Accordingly, 556 AH would be almost entirely within 1161 C.E.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
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United States
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 Posted 09/29/2025  08:15 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aquilacavallo to your friends list
@ttkoo, thank you, it's great to know my translation and scribing are decent since I am just starting to learn Arabic. I think the words after Imam Almustasim are "billah" (part of his name?) and "amir" (his title?) but not totally sure.
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 Posted 09/29/2025  08:21 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add ttkoo to your friends list

Quote:
@ttkoo, thank you, it's great to know my translation and scribing are decent since I am just starting to learn Arabic. I think the words after Imam Almustasim are "billah" (part of his name?) and "amir" (his title?) but not totally sure.

Yes of course "billah", why couldn't I see that? billah is like "by Allah" or "of Allah"and amir, yes perhaps. Thank you. All great coins, @j1m will be happy to cross out some more dates.
The Ox moves slowly, but the Earth is patient.
Edited by ttkoo
09/29/2025 08:23 am
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189142 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2025  09:01 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

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I forgot to keep up with this thread for a while, but I'm back and will fill in a few of those missing dates.
Excellent!

Fantastic examples, all!
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 Posted 09/29/2025  7:46 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Spence to your friends list
Ok thx @ttk for confirming the date of that Dirham. Here is a second one, but dated one year earlier: AH 556:


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And with this post, I am sad to announce that I will be sitting on the sidelines until the mid-10th Century. Weirdly, all of my Song Dynasty coins are Northern and I have nothing else with an AH date for another 200ish years.
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United States
84 Posts
 Posted 09/29/2025  8:14 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add aquilacavallo to your friends list
@Spence nice portrait on the AH556! The Zangid copper dirhams are so interesting with their portraits.
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 Posted 09/30/2025  07:06 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list
I've been way from the thread for quite a while, but have (surprisingly?) an AH 533 European coin coming up. Not sure if that corresponds to 1138 or 1139?

Will be curious to see if any others show up. There were quite a few AH dated types struck there (Sicily) in the 530s and 540s, though I haven't got a feel for how scarce they are.
Edited by tdziemia
09/30/2025 07:57 am
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 Posted 09/30/2025  08:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
Here is a second one, but dated one year earlier: AH 556:
Very nice!
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 Posted 10/07/2025  8:59 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list
If we are on 1139 today, I'll post this Sicily follaro which bears the date AH 533. Best I can tell, that hijri year ran from Sept. 8, 1138 to August 28, 1139.
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 Posted 10/08/2025  09:27 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
If we are on 1139 today, I'll post this Sicily follaro which bears the date AH 533.
Nice example!

Quote:
Best I can tell, that hijri year ran from Sept. 8, 1138 to August 28, 1139.
My unofficial formula likes it.
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 Posted 10/08/2025  2:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add january1may to your friends list

Quote:
If we are on 1139 today, I'll post this Sicily follaro which bears the date AH 533.


This is probably the coin I was most looking forward to when I started this thread.
AFAIK it's the world's oldest coin type dated in a positional numeric system* (that is, to the best of my knowledge, the actually-Islamic places didn't start using digits rather than words in their dates until later, while all dated ancient coins use some variety of nonpositional numerals), and IIRC this is one of the clearest dates I've seen on that type, too (they're often partially off flan, especially that complicated 5).

That's an interesting combo of the Byzantine-style depiction of Jesus on one side and Arabic lettering (with Islamic date!) on the other side, too.
I wonder what the religious split would have been like in Sicily at the time - was it mostly Christian, mostly Muslim, or roughly even?


*) It doesn't quite count as the oldest coin type dated in Hindu-Arabic numerals, because of the Western Kshatrapa edge case. It is almost certainly the oldest coin type dated in positional Hindu-Arabic numerals - or at least I'm not aware of any earlier.
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 Posted 10/08/2025  8:20 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list

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I wonder what the religious split would have been like in Sicily at the time - was it mostly Christian, mostly Muslim, or roughly even?


Difficult question. It had been Byzantine/Greek (so, Eastern rite Christian) from mid-6th to early 9th century when taken over by the Saracens. Two centuries later the Normans (western rite Christians) took over, but it's not clear how large their population was compared to the existing groups (probably small). So, I am going with 1. Greek Christian, 2. Islamic, 3 (distant). western Christian.
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 Posted 10/11/2025  11:50 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add NumiFan to your friends list
This nice coin is dated AH 660 (AD 1262) Seljuqs of Rum, the second reign of Qilij Arslan IV.


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 Posted 10/13/2025  08:49 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

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This nice coin is dated AH 660 (AD 1262) Seljuqs of Rum, the second reign of Qilij Arslan IV.
Very nice!
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