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United States
188924 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  09:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
Innocent until proven guilty.

The burden of proof is on me to make the determination.
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United States
5674 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  09:42 am  Show Profile   Check Zurie's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add Zurie to your friends list
Totally depends on the type of coin. California fractional gold I assume fake. Lincoln Cent I assume real.
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Australia
16837 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  10:39 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list
It is logically impossible to "prove a coin is genuine" - all you can "prove" is that it is not a kind of fake which your skill and science can detect. If it passes all your tests, it might be genuine - or it might be a really, really good fake.

The answer does depend on the context. If, for example, we're talking about an ancient coin being posted on the forum, I will always begin with the assumption that it might be fake. If we're talking about coins from a trusted and experienced dealer's inventory, I'm going to assume they're genuine.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Canada
21 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  12:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VestedPocket to your friends list
Wow, very interesting answers.

I was thinking about this from a risk stand point per se. Like everytime we buy a coin for numismatic purposes, it is a 'potential' investment for we don't know what might aspire in the future for that specific coin.
For example, when we talk about high mintage, it is all relative to the amount in circulation and this depends on how much are melted, lost at sea etc all depending on demand/supply for a specific metal type during a specific time. Since we don't know the future, there is always the probability that an event could cause a certain category of high mintage to be completely depleted to low mitnage (like the mint melting them for example).
So like when one buys a $10 coin, the risk is $10. I was wondering what mindset one should have when buying the coin; should it be one of risk mitigation at all times regardless of the type that you invest thereby creating it into a habit so that when one advances and purchases more expensive coins the habit is already engrained or if this approach should only be applied at certain times like when dealing with more expensive items and whether this would make one slightly vulnerable to error?
Also if one purchases with the mindset of innocent until proven guilty is this a better approach than guilty until proven innocent while studying in this field.

There is a range of collectors here all from amateurs to experienced so I thought it would be interesting to see if the habits are different among different experience levels.

Really interesting answers and I'm learning alot.
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United States
96728 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  2:26 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Dearborn to your friends list
Well If I buy a coin and it has a 'COPY' counterstamp on it, I'll assume that it is fake
all others will have to be judged on their on merits.
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United States
188924 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  3:05 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
it is a 'potential' investment
Your mileage may vary, but I enjoy the hobby much more knowing my coins are not bought for investment, but enjoyment.
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United States
3848 Posts
 Posted 10/07/2024  3:52 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jacrispies to your friends list

Quote:
Innocent until proven guilty.

The burden of proof is on me to make the determination.




Most US coin counterfeits can be detected very quickly from my experience, but gold usually needs a few more seconds because they are higher value and have better counterfeits circulating.
Suffering from bust half fever.
Want to learn how to attribute early half dollars by die variety? Click Here: http://goccf.com/t/434955
Shoot me a PM if you are looking to sell bust halves.
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Canada
21 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2024  4:01 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add VestedPocket to your friends list
Awesome!

Makes me wonder what my approach will be. I am not entirely decided as yet.
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United Kingdom
17956 Posts
 Posted 10/08/2024  5:22 pm  Show Profile   Check NumisRob's eBay Listings Bookmark this reply Add NumisRob to your friends list
There are modern circulating counterfeits that could fool some people. Immediately before the round brass UK pound coin was replaced by the current bimetallic version in 2017, it was estimated that as many as 3% of the pound coins in circulation were forgeries. A fair number of these forgeries must have been unwittingly taken overseas in the pockets of tourists or business travellers, and some must be appearing now in dealers' junk trays in the USA.
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United States
7953 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2024  07:40 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list

Quote:
...everytime we buy a coin for numismatic purposes, it is a 'potential' investment...


Like jbuck, "numismatic purposes" and "investment" are two different goals (just look at the dictionary definitions). I KNOW that on average I lose money when I re-sell coins in my current collection. But I don't care. Because I am a collector, and I care about the investment value of my investments, not my coin collection.

If you have future re-sale on your mind with every purchase, the simplest advice is to only buy slabbed coins. Someone else gets the responsibility for determining authenticity.

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United States
188924 Posts
 Posted 10/09/2024  11:00 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I KNOW that on average I lose money when I re-sell coins in my current collection. But I don't care. Because I am a collector, and I care about the investment value of my investments, not my coin collection.



Quote:
If you have future re-sale on your mind with every purchase, the simplest advice is to only buy slabbed coins. Someone else gets the responsibility for determining authenticity.
I have to agree.
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Portugal
655 Posts
 Posted 10/11/2024  4:44 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jecz79 to your friends list
If roman or greek, suspicious until proven innocent.
Others innocent until proven guilty.

I would not be much concerned about value because I avoid coins expensive due to rarity. But it would be very upsetting to find a historical piece turn out a deception.
Valued Member
United States
345 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2024  01:28 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add TinyRetreat to your friends list
The position I hold, forces me to educate myself. Learning about coins is endless ... researching a specific coin, its stats and attributes is so rewarding and fun.
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United States
188924 Posts
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United States
26188 Posts
 Posted 12/03/2024  8:43 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add GLB49 to your friends list
I went with "Innocent until". I haven't been doing this nearly as long as most of you so I don't have enough experience to identify a forgery. So, I try to purchase from the most reputable sellers that I can find.
As far as online vendors the majority of my purchases have been from APMEX. They are a big company and have a very good reputation. I have never received a coin from them that I had reason to doubt.
On ebay I only buy from sellers that have tens of thousands of transactions and a 98% or higher rating.
None of my coins will ever be sold because they will be handed down to my children. If there are any forgeries in my collection I will never know about it.
My American Silver Eagle collection http://goccf.com/t/448125
My random silver coin collection http://goccf.com/t/449270
My MS-70 silver coin collection https://goccf.com/t/490829
My dragon silver coin collection https://goccf.com/t/490859
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