1920-S Sovereign

All I will say on this matter is I that I have no opinion as to whether this coin is a fake but based on a couple of stories from some very good customers of mine Kurt may not be all he seems. I do buy from am always very cautious.

In saying that however, you need to do homework on every auction item you buy. Fakes do find themselves at auction. Just because you buy from reputable auction houses does not mean the item is genuine.

I stopped bidding on Downies auctions because from a room bidder friend of mine who knew what my postal bids were thought I was scammed. I have never won an item at a Downies auction for less than my postal bid. I do not know of anyone else that has won an item at a Downies auction for less than their postal bid. Given how Downies say it works it is possible but I have never heard of it happening. If you smell a rat....

As I understand it, the argument about the coin in question being fake is the general lack of detail and bubbly appearance, particularly on the reverse. This was discussed (quite vigorously, by some members) at a recent coin club meeting here in Brisbane.

This is a closeup pic of the coin in question (image taken off the website):

It's the low-res image (I'm only on dialup) but feel free to check the hi-res picture on the KJC Online Catalogue to make sure it looks similar.

This is a scan of a sovereign from my collection. It's South Africa 1927. Mine is circulated (probably a good EF)


Now, it may be comparing apples and oranges - after all, KJC's pic is a pro photograph while mine is just an amateur scan, and they're different dates and mints. But compare the background fields around the date and beneath the horse, and the level of detail, for example in the designer's initials.

Apparently, the explanation given for this bubbliness and lack of detail is "oil on the dies".

Regarding provenance, does this coin have a pedigree going back before the 1979 sale? If it does, then that blows the whole "fake theory" clean away.

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Originally posted by Bigfella

I do not know of anyone else that has won an item at a Downies auction for less than their postal bid.

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Yeah, I've always won them at exactly my bid price as well. I just had figured that other postal bidders bidded the same amount and I had my bids in first.

From my sources, the 20S Gold sov went for around $500K at today's KJC auction. I;'e also spoken to dealers who have handled a couple of 20s in their lifetime and they tell me the reason why the fields on the reverse looks rough (like that of a cast coin) is because the dies used to produce the 20s were corroded. This also affected the striking of areas such as the B.P on the reverse. As for the obverse, the weakness of beadings around the rim, esp from the 3 to 6 o'clock, was also a common flaw.
All these flaws are present on all the 20s so if you had a 20s Gold sov and it didn't exhibit these flaws, you would have reason for concerns.

For those members who never have been to a coin auction, may I suggest you go and see how they are done. I have only been to one coin auction, a couple months ago, and the speed of the rising bids was enough to make my head spin. Austions are not for the faint hearted. I examined a particular lot and came up with an estimated value, only to see in a matter of seconds, my estimate left in the dust as the bids from the floor zoomed ahead by leaps every second. It was worth the viewing experiance. (Most lots were sold in less than 25 seconds)

I wonder if this $500,000 coin took more than a minute to reach that figure? ( did anyone attend?)

I have placed bids in Auctions by mail and have won some lots from Downies at below my top bid. After seeing it live, I'm surprised I ever won anything. LOL

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Originally posted by lim118

WOW....half a million bucks !!!! With 16.5% buyers premium and 10% GST on top of it, this purchase has cost the buyer $600K+++...[:0]

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some one no longer has a hole in their sovereign collection

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Originally posted by toast

For those members who never have been to a coin auction, may I suggest you go and see how they are done. I have only been to one coin auction, a couple months ago, and the speed of the rising bids was enough to make my head spin. Austions are not for the faint hearted. I examined a particular lot and came up with an estimated value, only to see in a matter of seconds, my estimate left in the dust as the bids from the floor zoomed ahead by leaps every second. It was worth the viewing experiance. (Most lots were sold in less than 25 seconds)

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Exactly this is my point.
If I send a postal bid for a 1 ounce gold bullion coin, they can run it over easily 2- 3 bids even if no more bids left from the floor. Dealers and serious investors know how much a coin will sell so they come close with their postal bids and they can be flogged with these fast action practices. On the other hand if I put up a stupid postal bid like 3000 dollars for the same coin then I will get it around the 900 mark instead of the 750 on the floor, and the different will buy me a nice diner after the sell absolutely "free".