| Author |
Replies: 24 / Views: 3,527 |
Page 2 of 2
|
|
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
1502 Posts |
Quote: face-to-face transactions as opposed to conducting everything online in a faceless transaction. Certainly true but the ethics should be consistent in both worlds. Plus the reality is that the vast majority of coin sales - pick a number - are faceless transactions. But, I'll add, I actually just reread the first sentence of the OP's post. I guess I must have not fully grasped the scenario. That is a tough call and if true, I would consider that unethical behavior for a teller.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
409 Posts |
Scenario 2 seems not unlike the situation described in a YouTube short I saw within the last couple of weeks.
|
|
Valued Member
New Zealand
234 Posts |
Quote:Let me pose a hypothetical - you stumble on a big $ unattributed Bust Half Overton while browsing ebay. It is currently BIN at 5% true value. Would you buy it, or would you send a message to the seller stating that you would rather pay $1,000 as opposed to $50? Two responses to that: 1. A few years back on the local auction site here in New Zealand someone had a group of US coins listed, mostly late 19th and early 20th century stuff, some silver, some not. Mostly not overwhelming, but the photos were not great. I asked for a better picture of the 1909-S Lincoln Cent. They declined to post one. I was told "If you're interested, bid. You'll see it when you get it." So I did. It was a VDB. Two seconds of searching would have opened a door for them to the possibility. I tried to get them to post a better picture. How much are we going to do for folks? 2. I have gotten a couple of items from a local numismatic auction house that appear to be a bit more special than they realised. They're a numismatic auction house. They have professionals on staff for a reason.
Do not read this sentence.
Edited by Buffalo soldat 05/03/2025 11:07 pm
|
|
Valued Member
New Zealand
234 Posts |
In both scenarios I would try to clarify the situation, either to the customer at the counter who was trying to cash in their coins or via the teller who knew the customer who had done so. How would I feel if a family member of mine told me they'd cashed in a bunch of coins that I knew were worth considerably more than face value? I'd be pretty unimpressed if someone knew better and kept their mouth shut so they could take advantage of the situation.
If we're only ethical when someone is looking, we're not ethical.
In the early 2000s I was CRH in the DC area. I'd done it for years, only occasionally finding a silver here or there. I went to various banks over time both to increase my odds and because lots of banks just never or nearly ever have halves or dollars. Once I did get several rolls with about 15-20 silvers between them, mostly JFKs, but there was a Walker or two and a Franklin or two. I only discovered it after I'd left. I didn't go back.I don't feel bad. Without any clear idea of the back story, I don't really know how they ended up there. Mind you, at the time, the price of silver was a fraction of what it is now, so it would not have seemed that remarkable anyway.
Still, if I saw it happening, or someone I deemed credible brought my attention to the issue I'd certainly want to do right by others. I'd hope others would do the same with me.
On a side note, the local auction house here knows I'm a coin nerd. A few years back they had me go through a collection of coins for them just to see if there was anything noteworthy that wanted selling separately. I've known the owners for years, and I've had discussions around coins and even the ethics of the process with them over time. So they'd presented me with this medium sized tool box stuffed with coins in envelopes, some labelled, some not, loose coins, coins of New Zealand, and coins from around the world. I have a good enough idea either because of metal content or dates and using some apps to have a look through. On top it was mostly modern stuff of little interest. As I got down into it the age of the coins increased, and so did the previous metal content.
In the very bottom there was quite a bit of silver and several gold coins. Now, maybe they had some idea what was in there, and maybe they didn't, but I was going to tell them exactly what I'd found. It went to my personal credibility in future dealings with them, regardless of whether they knew what was in there, but especially if they did. It didn't take me long, and I was paid nothing for my time, but it built up an existing relationship to make it even stronger.
Do not read this sentence.
|
|
Valued Member
United States
397 Posts |
My personal take: Are the 30 pieces of silver worth your soul?
Perhaps not the easiest question to answer when it's $25k worth of silver and you're working for minimum wage, but deep down, I think everyone knows what the right answer is.
Edited by AllSeasons 05/06/2025 7:23 pm
|
|
Pillar of the Community
 United States
8968 Posts |
At the end of the day, if you have to "question" what you are about to do or have done, you know the answer. That being said, I have met some folks throughout my life that do not have this conundrum, I do not understand them. I suppose there are different levels of right and wrong in different peoples minds but if it bothers you, in any way, then it is probably wrong for you....
-makecents-
|
|
Moderator
 United States
195053 Posts |
Quote: At the end of the day, if you have to "question" what you are about to do or have done, you know the answer. Simple. 
|
|
Valued Member
United States
218 Posts |
it would be a rare thing for someone to own up and contact the seller or customer who cashed in the rolls, and make a honest payment to them. My concern is going to a coin dealer, they will only get spot less 5-10% from a dealer, and some dealers will swap out their good coins for lesser conditioned coins in many cases (I don't tell anyone to go to a dealer for this reason) and many other issues that I've encountered when dealing with coin dealers. I just buy from them never sell to them. I direct the new to Numismatics people to PCGS, NGC, CAC, and Greysheet web sights let them know what the differences are between all the coin grading services and how they value or grade the coins, then encourage them to learn as much as they can about how to grade and value their coins in the hope they will start collecting and not cash out the collection.
Edited by RWC112 05/07/2025 5:15 pm
|
|
New Member
United States
21 Posts |
Been on both sides of this coin. I had a type set that was only missing about 3 coins. All were at least VF to AU. Opened it up one day and they were gone. Step-son thought he had scored because he got double the face value for them.
Pick up several rolls of pennies from the bank many years ago and three rolls had a different wrapper, they had in them a complete 1909 thru 1958 collection minus the 1909 S VDB and the 1922. All were VF to AU. I went to the bank and told the teller and the manager I had them and told them to call me if they had anyone come looking for them. Went home, place them in tubes and forgot about them. 6 months later the manager called me, took them back the branch and met the gentlemen. He said for the pennies he lost them all, and was only missing the 1909 and 1922. Figured they were his at that point. He did give me two Silver dollars as a thank you. Figured I came out well enough.
|
|
Bedrock of the Community
United States
78563 Posts |
Quote: 6 months later the manager called me, took them back the branch and met the gentlemen. He said for the pennies he lost them all, and was only missing the 1909 and 1922. Figured they were his at that point. He did give me two Silver dollars as a thank you. Figured I came out well enough. 
Errers and Varietys.
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16979 Posts |
Though it's a year-old thread, the question of "the ethics of cherrypicking" were raised earlier, and here's my take on that. To my mind, "Cherrypicking" can be divided into two scenarios. And to my mind, one of these scenarios is perfectly ethical, the other is not. Scenario 1: Person A is selling coins. They are a "professional coin dealer", or have otherwise fully researched the coins to the best of their knowledge and expertise. Person B is a customer of that coin dealer, either well-known to Person A or not. If Person B finds a valuable coin for sale that they, personally, know is worth much more than Person A has listed the coin for, there is no ethical quandary whatsoever - Person B can buy the coin at that listed price without needing to "correct" the seller. Scenario 2: Person A is selling coins. They are not a "professional coin dealer", or really have any more skill in coin valuation beyond "look it up in Redbook/Internets". Person B is well-known to Person A as a "coin expert" and has been asked to go through the coins to help them value the coins properly, with the understanding that Person B can make a reasonable offer on anything they find while going through the coins. If Person B finds a valuable coin that they, personally, know is worth quite a lot, perhaps for obscure reasons (eg. it's a rare error/variety not listed in RedBook), it would absolutely be unethical to offer to buy that coin for considerably less than what Person B knows is the "true market rate" for that coin. The difference is the expectations placed upon Person B. In scenario 1, there are no expectations. Coins are for sale for $X, Person B might haggle the price but in the end either buys them or doesn't. But in scenario 2, Person B is being relied upon, due to their superior knowledge on the subject, for their honest opinions about the value of the coins. Offering a lowball value at that juncture is, effectively, lying. Person B "agreed to help", and then did the exact opposite of "helping". Depending on the nature of the "agreeement", there might even be a legal issue, in terms of breach of contract. Now, the unambiguity of Scenario 1 can be muddied somewhat if Person B, rather than keeping the cheaply-bought coin for their own collection, turns around and quick-flips the coin on ebay for instant profits. This is "muddied" if Person A finds out about this quick flip resale (and given they are a well-connected and knowledgeable dealer in that scenario, this seems likely to occur), Person A will then probably gain a negative opinion about Person B, and probably won't be as friendly to them next time they come in the shop. So in that scenario, if "staying in Person A's good books" is important to person B, then perhaps it would be advisable to attempt to "correct" Person A's pricing at that point. But that's not really a "moral" or "ethical" issue, just a "being nice and keeping friends" issue.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6880 Posts |
Quote: Scenario 1: Person A is selling coins. They are a "professional coin dealer", or have otherwise fully researched the coins to the best of their knowledge and expertise. What if Person A (the seller) is an individual who is clearly not a coin shop owner and obviously doesn't know a variety from a hole in the ground?
|
|
Moderator
 Australia
16979 Posts |
Quote: What if Person A (the seller) is an individual who is clearly not a coin shop owner and obviously doesn't know a variety from a hole in the ground? I don't see that situation as significantly different - basically, if they're not asking for your help or implying they need your help in identifying/valuing the coins, and have a price already in mind (however they've arrived at that price), then Scenario 1 still applies. It becomes fuzzier when there is no opening price, and Person A simply says "I dunno, make me an offer". Then I think you've likely moved into a Scenario 2 situation and a fair offer, based upon your knowledge, is what's being asked for.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
|
|
Pillar of the Community
United States
6880 Posts |
Sap, I have taken that basic philosophy myself when cherrypicking. If someone has posted a coin for sale on ebay, then they are offering it for sale on a professional venue. It's their personal responsibility to make sure that they understand what they are offering for sale. The buyer is taking risks, too. I also keep in mind that if I don't buy the coin, it could be purchased by another person who—like the seller—also doesn't understand the rarity or value, and the coin will be lost again. Yet occasionally, I do contemplate whether both of those are rationalizations that allow me to profit by specialized knowledge from folks who don't know any better.
|
|
Moderator
 United States
195053 Posts |
Quote: To my mind, "Cherrypicking" can be divided into two scenarios. And to my mind, one of these scenarios is perfectly ethical, the other is not. Thank you for sharing. 
|
|
Page 2 of 2
|
Replies: 24 / Views: 3,527 |
Page 2 of 2
|