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Circulated Vs SMS Coins

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 Posted 09/03/2025  8:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
The blanks were specially prepared, but it doesn't say polished...

https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/book/348

The Annual Report of the Director of the Mint, Exhibit 3...


Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
-----Burton
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 Posted 09/04/2025  06:42 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Humanist1287 to your friends list

Quote:
How about you post up an image of your coins.


Sure, Dearborn.

The 1965 and 1966 halves.
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins

1967 dated half.
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins

I would say if any of these fit the bill of what I would think a SMS half dollar would like, I'd say it would be the 1966. Again, I don't know. They were purchased all separately.
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 Posted 09/04/2025  09:09 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add BStrauss3 to your friends list
Semi PL and very few bag marks. Check
-----Burton
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Owned by three cats and a wife of 40+ years (joined 1983)

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 Posted 09/04/2025  10:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Humanist1287 to your friends list
So you think they are SMS?

I would have thought maybe the 66 one was.

I wanted to try to include both 65, 65 and 67 BU specimens as well as SMS, but if I already have the SMS coins, I don't think I'll bother.
Edited by Humanist1287
09/04/2025 11:12 am
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 Posted 09/04/2025  10:57 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list
All three look SMS to me, but I would prefer to make the determination in hand.

My three SMS half dollars came from my own broken sets, so I know they are what they are. They look obvious when sitting next to their business strike brethren. Of the three, the 1967 is the most proof-like. The other two look like very shiny and clean business strikes.
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 Posted 09/04/2025  11:30 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I wanted to try to include both 65, 65 and 67 BU specimens as well as SMS, but if I already have the SMS coins, I don't think I'll bother.
It only matters in the 8166 album, which has places for both.
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 Posted 09/04/2025  12:34 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cptbilly to your friends list
Humanist1287: I don't collect circulation strike JFK's. For comparison's sake, perhaps this is helpful. . .photos of SMS coins (with JFK close-ups) inherited from my father:
1965 SMS, in "flat pack" cello. First one is from an earlier production run, described in RB as "semi-brilliant or satiny":
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
This later 1965 SMS example has more brilliant fields, but not reaching Proof brilliance:
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
Early Version (L) :: Later Version (R)
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
The Mint upped its game with the 1966 and 1967 SMS releases:
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
Circulated-Vs-SMS-Coins
" Even a clock that's stopped is right twice a day. "
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 Posted 09/04/2025  1:55 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list
You can tell when a coin is SMS but not when it isn't. The SMS are made to exacting standards by finite dies. You learn to recognize them. But there are a wide range of processes that apply in every strike making certainty impossible. However the problem arises with very high grade circ strikes; they are hard to differentiate. As a rule the services assume SMS unless clearly not. This is probably for the best anyway because most of the tweeners are SMS. This is for a simple reason; High grade clad from that era simply doesn't exist; at least its existence is the result of random forces and high grade coins were very exceptional.
Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Edited by cladking
09/04/2025 1:58 pm
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 Posted 09/04/2025  2:51 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
For comparison's sake, perhaps this is helpful. . .photos of SMS coins (with JFK close-ups) inherited from my father
Nice examples!
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 Posted 09/04/2025  5:57 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Bump111 to your friends list

Quote:
at least its existence is the result of random forces and high grade coins were very exceptional.


This is why it matters. There's a big difference in price for SMS vs business strikes in the higher grades. I automatically assume that every nice 65-67 coin is SMS. If there were ways to differentiate, it would make the search more interesting.
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 Posted 09/04/2025  6:30 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list

Quote:
This is why it matters. There's a big difference in price for SMS vs business strikes in the higher grades. I automatically assume that every nice 65-67 coin is SMS. If there were ways to differentiate, it would make the search more interesting.


The problem is almost all the tell tale signs that it's not SMS appear as what most consider "imperfections". Experts are likely to interpret these imperfections properly as being evidence of being not SMS but the coin starts off with one strike against it.

I'd suggest if you like strike to get a well struck coin with evidence of die wear. And if you prefer pristine surfaces get a weaker strike. Usually everything else will be graded SMS.

I've heard horror stories of people finding near perfect coins in BU rolls and having them come back SMS but most that look SMS are.
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 Posted 09/05/2025  10:04 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add seamonkey5150 to your friends list
I wonder if this will also apply later on with the 2005-2010 Satin finish coins if they get into circulation. You know at some point someone will get grandpa's collection and coinstar them or take them to the bank. Especially if they take them into a coin dealer and he tells them those are common coins and only worth face value when they are not still in the original mint sets.

I'm curios to know what a circulated statin will look like. Maybe just dull
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 Posted 09/07/2025  12:33 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list

Quote:
I wonder if this will also apply later on with the 2005-2010 Satin finish coins if they get into circulation...
The satin finish is more obvious, at least to me. I believe that the amount of circulation needed to obscure it would make the determination irrelevant. Cladking probably has a more accurate take on it though.
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 Posted 09/07/2025  4:06 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add cladking to your friends list

Quote:
The satin finish is more obvious, at least to me. I believe that the amount of circulation needed to obscure it would make the determination irrelevant. Cladking probably has a more accurate take on it though.


I can make some predictions about how coins will wear because of things like rims, texture, location of high points, etc but for the main part I almost completely rely on experience; just waiting to see. I've only even studied a couple of the satin finish. I'd expect them to often be nice looking AU's but I wouldn't expect it to be visible on many coins below XF+.

Your contention is certainly right at this time. Even with the low mintages prices are extremely low. The real rarity might lie in choice examples of the circulation issues. It's often the case that some dates rarely come nice. If in the future people collect SF then there is every chance that even circulated examples could be deemed "desirable".

Time don't fly, it bounds and leaps.
Edited by cladking
09/07/2025 4:55 pm
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