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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Although possession is said to be 9/10's of the law, I don't expect the Government to roll-over on this case. The Govt has taken a hit (twice actually from the courts - this ruling plus the 31 Jul decision that the Treasury bear the burden of proof, not the Langbords). This may be long from over ... the coins will be returned to the Langbords, but because they constitute "evidence" in an on-going litigation, the family won't be able to dispose of them. There is a matter of precedent that the Treasury dept wants to avoid. They already lost the Farouk coin due to the export license granted by another govt agency. They will drag this out for as long as they can. I personally wish they'd wrap it up so we can see the movie starring Tom Cruise that's inevitably coming.  |
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Moderator
 United States
189603 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6396 Posts |
My understanding is that the 1933 double eagles were manufactured and "monetized" before the gold recall legislation went into effect. There was a brief time window during which it was possible for citizens to come to the Philadelphia mint and purchase new double eagles, or they might have exchanged older coins for the 1933-dated pieces. No explicit records of such transactions were made. As far as I know there was no final tally by date of the coins sent for eventual melting. An unknown number of 1933-dated coins could therefore have been legally obtained by the public. I don't see how the government could assert that these 10 coins were removed by illegal means. If they can't prove the coins were stolen or illegally sold, what is their basis for taking this property from the Switt family?
Edited by Jaobler
08/04/2009 7:18 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2521 Posts |
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If they can't prove the coins were stolen or illegally sold, what is their basis for taking this property from the Switt family? Greed! I often wondered why they never put up such a stink about the 1913 nickels. But I guess if they were selling for several million dollars when they were "discovered", they would have been seized and deemed illegal to own due to the very questionable nature of their existence. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2541 Posts |
I'm sure the Chinese are busy minting these anyway, so there will be plenty more to go around for everyone!
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Moderator
United States
16679 Posts |
Quote:
I'm sure the Chinese are busy minting these anyway, so there will be plenty more to go around for everyone!
Coming to a ebay near you! swcoin.ecrater.com
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2521 Posts |
Quote:Quote: I'm sure the Chinese are busy minting these anyway, so there will be plenty more to go around for everyone! Coming to a ebay near you! |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1801 Posts |
There is a very interesting book called "Illegal Tender" that tells the history behind the 1933 $20 dollar gold coins. It lays out a pretty tight case that no 1933's left the mint through any legal channels. The coins were tracked carefully from minting to melting, however there were some "questionable" employees who had breif access to the coins while under lock at the mint that could have substituted in older $20's into the bags of 1933's prior to melting. Interesting to note that of the total 25 1933's to surface all of them are linked to Switt, despite his insisting in 1944 (when it was believed there were either 10 or 15 coins that had been sold by Switt)that he had no knowledge of any additional coins other than the ones currently being hunted down by the treasury department and he insisted he didn't know the origins of the ones he had other than they had come in with various collections he had purchased. The first confirmed sales of a 1933 was from Switt to McAllister on 2/15/37 ($500) and again on 2/19/37 ($500 along with 2 1933 $10 coins, one of which was eventually donated to the Smithsonian Collection). Interesting book, interesting topic and I can't wait to read the court transcripts when it is settled.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2797 Posts |
Yes an interesting book indeed and it does report no government authorization to release the 33's. In fact these were minted after Roosevelt's Executive Order eliminating legal tender for gold. Mr Israel Switt just happened to have a friend, business partner, whatever at the Philadelphia Mint ... Mr George McCann, head cashier. It is speculated Mr Switt exchanged $20 gold coins minted in earlier years for the 1933's with the help of Mr McCann. These earlier coins were then placed in the bags along with the 1933 coins that were melted. They didn't inspect the dates on the coins prior to melting, only the count. The chain of custody and internal controls reported on the 1933 $20 gold, leave little doubt that these were obtained without government sanction. As I mentioned earlier, there has to be a Hollywood movie coming out about this in the near future. Lots of mystery, deception, history and intrigue ... too much for Hollywood to ignore. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1745 Posts |
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I personally wish they'd wrap it up so we can see the movie starring Tom Cruise that's inevitably coming. This is more of a role for Nicolas Cage. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
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My understanding is that the 1933 double eagles were manufactured and "monetized" before the gold recall legislation went into effect. that is incorrect and no matter what, these were not supposed to leave the mint EVER and the only way they could leave the mint is if they were taken without the mints permission (in other words stolen). As I said in the other thread if you think the Govt will not file the paperwork to keep these coins you are fooling yourself, this case will be going on for many more years and they will probably keep it going until the family runs out of money. I think its stupid to have to fight someone in court for your own property back and any judge that would make such a ruling doesn't know the story of how they came to be in the peoples possession. If you have stolen property in your possession for 80 years is it still not stolen property? who does it belong to, the person who stole it (or acquired it from the thief) or the rightful owner who has made claims that they want these back and every coin collector and just about everyone else knows they want them back so if you have them in your possession you know who the rightful owner is and you are knowingly keeping them from their property for your own gain. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
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that is incorrect Are you saying they were struck (manufactured) after the legislation went into effect? Or are you disagreeing with the rest of his statement (the part you didn't quote)? |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
they were minted after the executive order had already been in place by Roosevelt
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1882 Posts |
Thanks, Bryan.
Is there are short version theory/story on why they were minted? I want to find some reading material on this, it is pretty interesting.
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
the book mentioned in this thread (Illegal Tender)is the best one I have read about this coin
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Replies: 19 / Views: 2,349 |
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Posted 08/04/2009 3:10 pm
