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 Replies: 24 / Views: 9,929 |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
Its a Magicians coin. Peter Thomas and Bryan hit the nail on the head. Put a coin on a lathe and machine out the reverse leaving the rim intact. Put another coin on the lathe and machine off the reverse side completely and then the rim from the remainder. Then fit the cut down coin into the hollow made in the first coin. Another give away would be the two sides of the coin not being 180 degrees out of alignment, Australian coins of this era with genuine double heads/tails are always 180 degrees out of alignment. |
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New Member
 Australia
7 Posts |
Yes mark, it certainly seems to be a Magician's coin. My friend and I are so disappointed because we thought it was a unique error. :( |
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New Member
Australia
22 Posts |
Hi Clyve,
a Double headed coin seems to be a swear word amongst some(see my post on double headed 5c)a good test for these coins is a dye penetrate crack test, works very well and will certainly bring out a join if there is one, engineering/mechanics workshops may be able to help you out. By the way great find, I like to be positive about these things, its real until proven otherwise :)
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
14454 Posts |
Oh believe me I am not saying I know for a fact this is a Magicians coin, I was just pointing out what looks like a seam and if in fact it is a seam its what we call a magician coin. The reason I even said its a seam is because one side shows what I pointed out and the other side doesn't show that same characteristic |
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New Member
Australia
22 Posts |
Hi Bryan,
just tyring to offer Clyve some support, I went through exactly the same thing earlier this year, I Know what he will be up against, not people on here but the wider Australian numismatic community treated me as a thief or a schemer at best. I hope Clyve has a much better experience
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Pillar of the Community
United States
2150 Posts |
Hey neild did you ever get any confirmation on your coin?
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New Member
Australia
7 Posts |
My friend said that he took it to a dealer years ago, and although the dealer wasn't familiar with the error, he offered $5K. Makes me wonder if the dealer had heard about magician/flipper coins.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
He was offered $5,000 and he didn't take it?
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12437 Posts |
Quote:
Has it always been true that both side of a coin are shaped (minted - not sure of the correct wording) at the same time.
and when did they stop using single side printing techniques? By the very nature of minting coins, both sides have to be struck simultaneously with two dies. If you struck one side and then the other, the second strike would obliterate the first strike on the opposite side. Quote:
although the dealer wasn't familiar with the error, he offered $5K There are a very few genuine US double sided coins, all of them minted intentionally. The obverse and reverse dies in a coin press are designed so that they are not interchangeable unless someone intentionally alters the dies. I cannot say for certain but I have to assume that this is a standard practice at any world mint. Because of that, any doubled sided coin is automatically suspicious. Needless to say, $5000 would be a lowball offer for a genuine example. Here is a link to a Heritage auction for a two reverse Washington quarter, it hammered for $41,975 in 2006. |
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New Member
Australia
22 Posts |
Hi joker I have confirmed it as real, 99% of people now agree after physicaly seeing the coin. A well known Sydney dealer valued it at around $1500 but that seems low to me. Almost thinking of putting it to auction.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
Neild, if it is real, I would suggest hanging onto it. Unless you really need the money. I say 'IF' it is real. (Keep reading) I know you have had a hard time convincing people here, and the reason for that is it is very, very difficult to make a double sided coin. The obverse die doesn't fit into the reverse punch and vice versa without physically adjusting the equipment. The 20c in this thread is most definitely a Magicians coin, and a dealer should have been able to see that. The seam is obvious. I would suggest getting your coin certified, first by a major dealer here, then have them submit it to one of the major third party grading services in the States. Double sided coins DO exist in Australia, though they are incredibly rare. The most accepted theory for the existence of our double sided coins is simple 'experimentation' (read - fooling around) by mint staff. I really do hope yours is genuine. Let us know if you get it certified. |
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
A partner and I run a popular Australian coin weblog and the MOST POPULAR question we get by far is people who have 'double headed' or 'double tailed' coins. In all the questions we've had about these coins (and people who had one) I would judge exactly 1 as possibly genuine. Magicians coins are very easy to make if you have any machining skills at all and are probably made by apprentices all around the world when challenged by their bosses. The thing to realise about genuine double headed/tailed coins is that THEY CANNOT HAPPEN BY MISTAKE. The operators of the presses must deliberately setup the coin press to make them. So they are deliberately manufactured and probably leave mints in the pockets of their employees and as such the number made is very very small.
Regarding the value of double sided coins they are worth 2-4k in pristine UNC here in Australia depending on the denomination. A circulated like the one in this thread would be worth WELL under $1000 if it was genuine. If you go take a look at the North East Numismatics site (apologies if it's not there anymore) there was a lightly cleaned double tailed 2c in an ANACS slab for $900 odd US.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1040 Posts |
I knew I had seen a 2c somewhere, I couldn't for the life of me remember where, thanks Mark.
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Pillar of the Community
Australia
1295 Posts |
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New Member
Australia
22 Posts |
Great article Mark,will definitely clear up some of the confusion
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Replies: 24 / Views: 9,929 |
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First Page
Posted 10/15/2009 05:25 am
