1909-S VDB & 1922 Plain Are They Real?

stmpcol, what makes you suspicious that these are anything but real?

Not sure how to say this, but I hope you know that to identify and authenticate these coins takes more than the pictures you have posted. I know of no service that would say one way or the other without having them both in hand. Authentication is impossible any other way.....IMO!

I agree with dan that pictures on a forum are not the best method of authentification,, but there are certian characteristics that can be spotted for these coins which are a sure indication of a forgery,, and likewise there are certian characteristics which can be seen that can help Identify authentic pieces.

for sure the information that is given here should be check by submission of the coins to a TPG, but why pay for a coin to be deemed counterfeit if its obvious ?

Rick

Hello.
This is one thing I have been working on for a while now.
I am not an expert, but I am working on it.

For the S-VDB, check out my long-time-work-in-progress site: http://www.oicoins.com/index_files/Page813.htm
From the pictures on the site, notice the bump in the S. The same mint mark was used for all S VDBs, and all will have this bump. This can be hard to see if not under high magnification.
Second, notice how the serifs of the S are straight up and down. Most fakes are slanted. Next, the VDB on the back. The middle "bar" of the be should be slanted, not straight across. 1909 P VDB's have this bar straight across. If you have a plain VDB, please compare.

The 22 Plain, looks good. The second 2 is strong, but something is fishy about it. TRUST is also strong than IN GOD WE, which is a characteristic of Die #2 (the good one). So I would say this one is good.

But the S VDB... I'm not sure. Hopefully that link will be of some help.

Metalman: From what I have read, there were only 4 dies used for this coin. Could you please tell me where you got this information from? Maybe I was confused with 4 mint mark locations, but I would have thought that the be 4 dies as well?

As for the "die markers" you asked about, "A lack of these diagnostics does not condemn these coins; they occurred to the dies during production and this appear on only some of the coins. They were not necessarily present on the dies from the start -- but when the do appear, they go a long way toward confirming a coin's authenticity" - PCGS Guide to Grading and Counterfeit Detection

I just now noticed the added picture of the S... there does appear to be a little dot in the loop of the S, and the shape of the S matches the S that I have pictures on my site.

So I think they both may be good coins.

Good luck with your submissions!
Jordan

I see that now, interesting note about John Zug, isn't it? For those who don't have the book, John Zug bought 25,000 S VDBs from the mint at issue, and resold them at 1.75 cents a piece in 1918.
PCGS Guide, First and Second Editions state 4 dies. I am going to look into this further.

Well heck ya, that was a great deal. He probably put it in the bank and lost it all a few years later when the stock market fell.

With coins like those I always recommend coppercoins.com. The guy that runs that web site has 2 books out on just Lincoln Cents and I have both of them. Also, he is very helpful with questions like that and if you go to that web site you can go right into the pages in his book about those coins or discuss it with him. He brags about taking thousands and thousands of photos of just Lincoln Cents.