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 Replies: 18 / Views: 2,156 |
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Moderator
 United States
23522 Posts |
So help educate me here, please. I can see the problems with the obverse, but how does one reconcile that with what looks like a nearly-pristine reverse, from a grading standpoint?
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by ageka
[quote]Originally posted by SuperDave
So help educate me here, please. I can see the problems with the obverse, but how does one reconcile that with what looks like a nearly-pristine reverse, from a grading standpoint?
I cannot find anything pristine about the reverse Maybe it is the photo But I never like it when the strike lustre changes drastically outside the protection of the lettres Look at the circled area an how the bright lustre ends exactly where the wording ends especially at 7 o'clock inside of the dot between united and five Image:  anno jpeg.jpg73.03 KB Edited because the pic did not show ; I am a klutz   Edited by ageka
10/22/2006 12:05 pm
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I see your point. Given the softness of gold, I had attributed that effect to the coin becoming somewhat concave during the strike. I see similar effects on photos at Heritage.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperDave
I see your point. Given the softness of gold, I had attributed that effect to the coin becoming somewhat concave during the strike. I see similar effects on photos at Heritage.
Normally the effect is due to fingerfat  |
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Valued Member
United States
390 Posts |
So the differences in color are probably due to handling during circulation? Could it have been cleaned? Boy, there is so much to learn to look for on these coins! So what was it graded? We inquiring minds want to know!  Edited by Guido
10/23/2006 04:47 am
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Valued Member
 United States
89 Posts |
The coin graded PCGS MS-63.
Superdave was on the right track -- there seems to be a tad more tolerance for marks on gold than on Morgans. The crummy images probably threw off the others. I will try to post better images within the next few days.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
Break out the champagne Attached my personally owned ref for an MS63 Note the continuity from rim over lettres to the middle of the coin without any circle delineation of fingerfat circulation Image: 5$ L.jpg25.5 KB Edited because pic did not show  Edited by ageka
10/24/2006 05:46 am
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Moderator
United States
23522 Posts |
I, of course, defer to your experience with gold, ageka, but I wonder if in this case the effect might have been enhanced by being imaged in a slab. Of course, it's equally possible that PCGS let one slip through.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I am having a bad day I was using reply with quote instead of edit This way I made three identical posts apart from spelling mistakes Edited by ageka
10/25/2006 1:25 pm
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
My coindealing friend had some remarks for me
some of them not for public consumption
But essentially he suggested that if it were a foreign coin it probably would go AU58 and for me not to change my grading of Napoleons or any other non american coins in any way
And second that even if there were a fingerprint etched allover the face it still would be MS if that is what Sheldon evaluation dictated because fingerprints and fingerfat are no prove of circulation in this scale however ugly they might make the coin
He agreed however the submitter of the coin should break out the champagne anyway
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
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Valued Member
United States
89 Posts |
quote:
Originally posted by ageka
Break out the champagne
Attached my personally owned ref for an MS63
Note the continuity from rim over lettres to the middle of the coin
without any circle delineation of fingerfat circulation
Um, the coin is uncirculated -- I don't know what you mean by "fingerfat" -- must be some Belgian term. The so-called break in luster you are seeing is likely some subtle toning from being in an after-market holder. There is no rub. But of course you know better from a less than perfect picture than a PCGS grader does with the coin in hand. By the way, the coin you posted looks nice and should be a 64 if the obverse is just as nice. |
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
I only photo grade My American friend has them TPG graded after he buys them At some time he bought more then 100 coins a week as a professional coin dealer and errors in grading raw coins can be very costly So far none of the coins we photo graded bought and submitted came back lower then we expected We are always either one grade low or par In fact we had a nice run of successes with Chile and Peru coins coming back between MS65 and MS67 An official grader has what ? sixty seconds to grade ? We take up to half an hour to tentatively grade and then question each other on the grade because if you like/want the coin you tend to overgrade . A persons fingers contain fatty acids These fatty acids will eat in metal and dull gold We abbreviated coins that have been touched by naked hands and show it as having finger fat Anyway attached part of his assessment of the coin were I was wrong The reason they go to MS
rather than AU is because there is zero high point rub and full lustre even in the disturbed areas. It's the victim of bag marks and improper handling
(though gentle enough to leave the lustre intact).
the difference in lustre sheen is, as you say fingerfat, plus the flow that occurred during the strike. anyway the biggest point is the lack of any high point rub -- none whatsoever |
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Valued Member
United States
287 Posts |
I have seen slabbed coin from the so called professional graders that were in my opinion not correct. Get a coin graded and as a test send it in again and odds are that it will be graded differently. Some of the most accurate grading is done by people that have been in business for many years. You can't beat experience. I agree that this coin in the discussion has some serious problems, it is a very fine coin but not close to what it is graded at. Each persons perspective is different, but I take pride in taking a close and thorough examination of the coins I see. I am no way a expert, but would not grade this coin that high. After collecting coins for over 40 years sometimes certain condition just stares me in the face and this was one of them.
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Pillar of the Community
Belgium
2078 Posts |
@ silver dollar Since I graded it AU 58 I obviously agree But part of the lesson I did not copy from my friend is that the market needs this kind of coins in cheap MS grades and that on this type if you get out of AU because of zero rub you virtually automatically make MS 62 and in his opinion that is given the market forces ( from AU 58 to MS 62 ) it should have staid at MS 62 |
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Posted 10/22/2006 12:04 pm
