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 Replies: 64 / Views: 16,184 |
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Previously Banned Member
2 Posts |
Glenzy: That's why I put in my post that you were limited by the 15 limit. I meant that the "survey" limit was 15 from the site, not that YOU limited it to 15. My apologies if I wasn't clear.
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Administrator
 United States
326 Posts |
Amazing, for someone that badmouths this place on other sites, they sure want in here bad. Third time re-registering.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
Direct quote as stated by someone who knows. Can be found on another site if you want to search.
"1997 was the year of the switched coins in ICCS holder. The person paid to have all the coins re-graded, and every single collector was re-funded in full. The dealer was fined and booted out of CAND, he was not booted from the CNA, however. It was me who spent countless hours tracking it all down. ICCS was urged at the time to do something about their holders, they have not. Plastic holders that are sealed are just too easy to switch coins. I have heard about hard holders from the US having coins switched in them, but have not seen one."
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
9865 Posts |
I'm glad we can discuss the "switcheroo" fairly openly here.On the other popular Canadian coin discussion site I see the webmaster has effectively published that site's obituary and the cause of death will be this issue.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
Glenzy1 and Matrix, I posted the quoted statement from someone who was there in 1997 and am patiently waiting for your inputs. Of course if you were CAND members the information is probably there for you to find.  |
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Pillar of the Community
 Canada
1554 Posts |
Hello Zonad, I read your statement, but what I'm looking for is either proof or someone who I know who is credible that has first hand experience on the matter. I don't believe you are a victim of the so called switcheroo practice, but may have heard it or read it from someone/somewhere.
I'll definitely keep my eyes and ears open and ask around. I've heard this story floating around for years more than once, but every time someone mentioned it to me, they heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend, etc................
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Valued Member
Canada
371 Posts |
I think Sean Isaacs of Alliance Coin and Banknote is an excellent dealer... conservative grader, friendly... just an all around great guy to buy from.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
do you need to know who said this and who he was speaking of? I believe one mistake, individual was expelled from the CNA.  |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1554 Posts |
WOW, Zonad, now that's a real I opener! I wished you would have posted that earlier. Thanks for the heads up.  Glenn |
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
9865 Posts |
Let me get this straight in my mind A number of members here state the switcheroo is a fact Zonad,author of the series"The Kowledgable Collector" in the RCNA Journal isn't believed until he posts a page shot from another forum. I'm confused. Does this mean because something is posted on the other forum it must be true,but if posted here it must be regarded with scepticism? I don't mean to single you out glenzy,this attitude is in evidence everywhere on this forum. |
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Valued Member
Canada
212 Posts |
Zonad:
The only coin I own that is graded by ICCS in my 1921 50 cents pieces all the rest is PCGS. I understand your frustration with C&P but for me so far so good and I have a really good friendship with them. If ever they pull a thing like that on me then I will cut all ties. But I believe in forgiving someone for past behavior hey I have done some stuff in my past I am not proud of but people forgive that is the nature of mankind otherwise we are always at war. Sometimes we must turn the other cheek. They like any other business have done some things that where not right. Look at the whole world it is the same way. We are talking 1997 not 2010. When I was not happy with a coin Marc or Eric would jump in a blink of a eye and rectify the situation.
I consider these guys my long distance friends and have so for about 5 years. This will not change I am 110% certain they will never pull a move like that on me because when I buy a coin from them it is always a coin over 20 000$ so they have everything to gain and so much to lose by doing such a thing. Like everyone says buy the coin not the holder that applies for ever single purchase.
Edited by Matrix1980
05/21/2011 11:42 am
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1733 Posts |
You can't doubt Zonad's credentials. I don't think this is what it's about on balance. Reposting another comment from somewhere else doesn't actually sway me one way or the other. As I said a heads up from this many people is enough to make one tread lightly. If 10 people tell you the bridge is out, you are very likely to reduce speed on the bends in the road.
Still, I am amazed that something this large wasn't investigated and a paper trail left. I actually find it disturbing that if no charges were laid, no investigation held - I can't help but wonder why. This seems like blatant fraud on the surface, could nothing be proven?
No offense to anyone (if it's taken offensively I apologize in advance) but I find high profile collectors are excellent at communicating among themselves and with other dealers but that's where it seems to end despite the presence of coin centric media and (now) well established internet forums. On one hand we have guys running around making changes that positively impact all collectors and the other we have a core wall where nothing gets in and nothing gets out and any attempt to do so is met with disbelief and resistance.
I'm still gobsmacked yet very glad to have this discussion here and now in this medium for review.
It makes me think a PCGS like play could be made for the Canadian market whereby coins are backed by financial guarantee as well as a simple opinion of grade. Getting skin in the game is what it's all about these days no matter what we're discussing.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1472 Posts |
The problem is the truth is always hiding. I have not said it was C&P. It was an individual. CAND is only there to protect the dealers, and silence is protection. ICCS has not done anything to change the security of their holders, and do not say their holders are safe. The only person who has any guarantee is the person who has the coin certified, down the line you have nothing and that's what you get for 6 or 7 bucks. A good picture or coin in hand with knowledge can be worth 10-100 times more than a ICCS certificate. Look at the dealers who have tons of coins in ICCS holders and you know immediately why silence and forgiveness is way up in their agenda. The collector is at the bottom of the pole. I have lots of ICCS coins, and have sent lots to them. Got what I paid for, no more.
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Valued Member
Canada
212 Posts |
Zonad:
I agree I also prefer hard slabs but ICCS seems to not want to go that direction. I like CCCS but they rare not well known in the U.S. I have had offers on some of my coins form U.S dealers and they only want ICCS if it is from Canada or PCGS.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
1581 Posts |
The extra cost of hard slab is significant, is it not? For CCCS the cost is $10 more each in small quantities, and over 2x the cost of the soft-flip in quantity.
CCCS calls their soft-flip a "secure holder". I know their is a pro-CCCS bias on here, but shouldn't that be criticized?
It is not like Apple and viruses? They are no more secure than PCs, but they are simply not the target for viruses.
Ugly: It is my experience that when vested business interests are involved, they are will tend to demand secrecy over openness. Dealers and newsletters have little to gain by raising knowledge of the problems because it will tend to generate fear and doubt, initially.
But, clearly getting all this in the open is a positive for the collector, whom if didn't exist, neither would the business.
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Replies: 64 / Views: 16,184 |
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Posted 05/17/2011 1:01 pm
