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 Replies: 51 / Views: 4,773 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote:
I read yesterday that if you count in SS and medicare into our national debt our debt is actually around $100 trillion. Various web sites out there show this number to be between $100-130T. It is an unimaginably HUGE number. I doubt that ANY politician actually grasps the magnitude of a number this size. Clearly not, else we would not now be in this position!  Quote:
If our government wanted to they could default our debt to the federal reserve and start printing their own money and start from the ground up. Yes, they probably could. But then, a default also includes US Treasury bonds too and MANY American citizens own them, either directly or through their retirement plan at work. If the US were to default, it would be many years before we could again borrow money at anything other than high interest rates. Not that this would necessarily be a bad thing. Living within our income is a financially sound idea, even if it is forced upon us. |
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Valued Member
175 Posts |
There is one politician that grasps it :). I dont think a default would be that bad and by not bad I mean it would give us a proper chance to actually recovery from this recession.
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New Member
Greece
14 Posts |
Even if you divide debt to population USA debt/person is higher than Greece.
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
EdoReTora: Yes, you are quite right.
The debt per head in Greece is $27,700 per head of population.
The debt per head in America is $45,150 per head of population.
However, America has a higher income per head of population.
Which got me to thinking:
What is an economist's idea of national debt?
The answer is another question: What is the total gross domestic for one year as compared to the national debt?.
? What is the Gross Domestic Product? , you may ask.
That is the total value of goods and services provided by a country in one Year.
The debt to GDP ratio for Greece is about 1.45 to 1.
The debt to GDP ratio for America is about 1.00 to 1.
Why all the angxiety of the European economists about Greece? THEY are trying to protect the Euro. They don't want a domino effect into other European economies. Ultimately, THAT would affect the United States, who has her own problems already.
Curiously, I have never studied economics, even in early high school, so you can hardly call me an expert!
What is an expert? THAT is a drip under pressure! That's me!
But I am still no expert on economics.
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New Member
Greece
14 Posts |
You have average higher income in USA but if you look closely that goes for some states. For example, California has a lot better economy than, lets say, South Dacota.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
I watched an episode from South Park 2009, and Randy Marsh took his son Stan to the bank to put his first hundred bucks in to invest, and the banker said....
"Sure will take that hundred and turn it into something for ya, will take that hundred, diversify it in some off shore accounts in Europe......and its gone."
Stan was like...."What dude I just gave it you ya, 100 bucks."
And the banker replied....."Nope, invested it, it didn't work out, your money is gone"
Later, Kyle got a Platinum visa card with no limit, and payed for all of South Parks sin, I mean debt, and they thought he had died, but he just passed out from swiping the card millions of times putting all of the towns debt on that Visa card with a no spending limit....
Stan took his father's Margarita machine (the metaphoric comparison to things we buy and don't need), in an attempt to get the money back since their economy collapsed, and the store it was bought from sent him to the finance company, they then sent him to Wall Street, then they sent him to D.C., where he discovered a room filled with a bunch of old style wigs on a counsel, and they were deciding the fate of a bank. They chopped off a head of a chicken an tossed it onto a board filled with ideas, and the chicken finally kicked over an died on BAILOUT, so that was the order for the bank, lol....
I laughed and said, O.K, that is how they figure out how to solve the tough problems in Washington....
Edited by Silverhawk74
07/11/2011 6:42 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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You have average higher income in USA but if you look closely that goes for some states. For example, California has a lot better economy than, lets say, South Dacota. A few years ago, had Calif been a separate country, it would have had the 7th largest economy in the world. Sadly, that state is now in worse fiscal condition than the USA. Once hugely productive, Calif has been taken from the Makers and given over to the Takers. Business there has been licensed, taxed, and regulated to death and the end result is inevitable. They are circling the drain as we all speak. Only an infusion of either common sense (extremely unlikely) OR HUGE amounts of federal dollars (so they can continue to act foolishly) will stave off default. I very strongly advised on various web sites that every productive person in Calif should sell anything they had there and move to another state while they still can. Other states appreciate those who create products, services, and jobs. Calif only sees them as cash cows to be milked to death and then made into burgers. If I lived there, I would cash out ASAP and move to CO, TX, or AZ... and I would not waste a moments' time doing it! |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
nood2003 sed Quote:
The government needs to quit chasing social security. That will be the #1 cause of government spending and it is entirely unsupportable as it currently stands. If they do keep it, they need to have some kind of cap on it so that you can not get more then a set % (and a smallish one at that) more then you paid into it.
As with many "simple" solutions, this isn't fair. SS is insurance. Pay the premiums on the annuity, and you should get it forever. Legal alien comes to US, works from 52-62, retires. He should get benefits as long as he lives. Is this unfair to the guy who worked 12-65 before retiring? Whose fault was that? Could we have a better plan? Absolutely! 5% of income either must be used to buy an annuity from an approved list of insurers, or the gubmint will do it for you. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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Could we have a better plan? Absolutely! 5% of income either must be used to buy an annuity from an approved list of insurers, or the gubmint will do it for you. I would be in favor of that, so long as the approved insurance companies were held to VERY conservative investments and were not allowed to spin off into the banking twilight zone (ala AIG) with weird CDOs, derivatives, sliced and diced bundles of securities that no one really knows what's in them, how much they are really worth, or the quality of their credit worthiness, etc. |
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Valued Member
United States
299 Posts |
Sorry to go back to the OP but....
IMO - and I am no ex spurt - if the US does no raise the debt ceiling, then the temporary fear and panic/pandemonium wil raise the price of PMs
OTOH,
If the US does raise the debt limit, the additional printed money will continue to do as it has, devaluing the dollar and raising the price of PMs.
Whale oil beef hooked! We PM investors win either way
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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Sorry to go back to the OP but.... Yeah, there's one of you yahoos in every crowd! lol Seriously, though... I agree that the future is looking bleak enough that no matter quite how it unfolds, owning some PMs will be a very good thing. I cannot see a scenario that occurs wherein PMs become worth significantly less than they are today. Yes, the price of PMs does fluctuate. It always has and likely always will. That aside, I would FAR rather own $50k worth of gold than $50k worth of FRNs. Put both in a bank SDB, wait 20 years, and see which one will buy a very comfortable life style and which will buy a few groceries. I think that we all know which one will do what!  |
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Rest in Peace
United States
9104 Posts |
Quote:
The government needs to quit chasing social security. That will be the #1 cause of government spending and it is entirely unsupportable as it currently stands. If they do keep it, they need to have some kind of cap on it so that you can not get more then a set % (and a smallish one at that) more then you paid into it. Under duress, my employer and I were forced to pay into an annuity that will provide a little money when I retire. Unlike with a real annuity, I can pay into it for 50 years, but get the same benefits as someone who only paid in for 10 years. Now, people want to cap my annuity or even eliminate it, voiding my policy. Sorta like paying to insure a million dollar house, only to be told that they checked my bank balance, and I can afford to replace it without them having to honor their contract. Or buying health insurance that covers me until I get sick. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
There ya go again, Fredd... operating under the assumption that the money that you worked hard for, saved, and invested is actually yours and not the government's to do with as IT sees fit.  |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
Fredd, let me know if you need any money. I'll sell some of my stuff to help you out if you have any trouble meeting your bills. I'll dump my silver since joe says that it's worthless. I'll sell my Buffaloes too since joe says that they're fake. Let me know. We could also throw a coin community benefit too. We're here to help.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
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I'll dump my silver since joe says that it's worthless. Too late for that, Junior. One Joe Has Spoken, no one will buy your worthless silver. |
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Replies: 51 / Views: 4,773 |
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Posted 07/11/2011 12:31 am
