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Replies: 18 / Views: 1,971 |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1026 Posts |
Gold is taking off today WOW and the stock market looks like it may make another record drop today.
I feel sorry for people in the market I warned my brother to take his out two years ago but he said it always comes back he is 66 years one so not in his life time if you ask me.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
Quote: I feel sorry for people in the market Depends on their position, Bears make huge money on days like this. As I type SDS is up about 8% today (one day). Sept 178 calls in GLD are up about 44% today. 
Edited by GoThunder 08/18/2011 10:32 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
I am in the market. Don't feel sorry for me since I am just waiting for it to drop more and buy more stock. Say what you want about gold, but oil is where the really big $$$ will be made.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
Quote: Say what you want about gold, but oil is where the really big $$$ will be made. I hope you're right, I'm long oil too (above and below ground). I'm down about 4.6% today in it though. 
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
throwbackkid- watch out for terrorists if you go to Fiji. That's where the terrorists go after our Aussie friends. Bali too. Be careful
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
1450 Posts |
I think we will hold $1800 today unless something big happens in the afternoon. I think gold will correct because the price is above what most folks can afford,even for jewelry. If it goes to $1000,it will be an attempt to shake out the weak hands,nothing more! Things in Europe ain't gettin' fixed,period. The PPI and CPI number were hideous,unemployment claims are climbing again,the Philly Fed Index was shocking,grain harvest projections are dismal,beef prices are going out of sight,so,how's your day? There is no way out except inflation and QE3 is coming to drive the dollar down. That has been the only thing driving the stock market. After back-to-school spending you will see consumer spending dry up,everybody will be saving up for Christmas shopping,but inflation will make prices so high people will not buy big items. Yes,I am a cynical old man,but,I am also honest with myself!
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Pillar of the Community
United States
5833 Posts |
The 30 year bond is down .15 basis points.
GMNA funds will go up. Stocks are good pick up at right prices.
PM will correct itself with buyers taking small profit margins before ending today.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
It is settin at 1820 here just past noon, and the market is in a free fall. It will be interesting to see if gold pulls back any or if the market moves back up some before the day ends. If not, looks like another record bad day for some stock holders....
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Pillar of the Community
United States
931 Posts |
Gold at $1800 is not too out of reach for the common man as long as they can buy a share of ETF Gold for $180 and still be participating while helping to push prices higher.I think oil is heading below $60 again and $60 is pretty close to production cost so I don't see oil as a buy above $65. I work in the oil and gas patch in New York and the only thing holding my company up right now is our Marcellus Shale play in Pennsylvania.
Edited by junior e 08/18/2011 1:06 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3670 Posts |
Man with oil dropping like a rock, gas should as well for a bit....
I met this great guy at work, and through talk of the economy I learned he bought five slabbed St. Gauden 1 oz gold coins back in late 90's and he also raided every pawnshop throughout the southeast for pre 64 90% silver coins. He is a real gem , let me tell ya. Crazy fellow for sure, and not afraid to share his opinion, and he like most here, has seen the negative actions from our government since about the mid 90's, and he has since retired. He stopped back in to see me after it past 1800 last week, and he said then those coins he bought way cheap back when he did, at like 500 each, which he thought was way to high, will bring 2500 today....
Anyhow, he says depression not recession is coming for sure. And he says everything will shoot through the roof in price, accept gas, which should fall to 1.50 a gallon....
I am not sure I agree with the above statement. Anyone have any fundamental reasons why that theory is crazy or not?
He also told me the story about the woman stopping at the grocery store with the wheel barrel of coins, and when she came out, the robbers had dumped the coins an taken the cart in Germany post world war 2. I miss-told the story as I said she had set it in front of the bank an left it, and the dumped the coins, which would make zero sense as BF pointed out, via melt value even. But, thieves in a hurry, may have wanted the cart, but said the heck with the dead coins, lol....
Edited by Silverhawk74 08/18/2011 1:50 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
Well, a depression involves the currency deflating, which happens to make everything cheaper. And while oil will probably be down in the short term, there is a limited supply of oil on earth and unlike gold, the oil you use is gone for good, so long term, oil is going to have a huge price increase.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3294 Posts |
All three US depressions have involved deflation since the US became a nation (1837, 1873 and 1929). I don't know if maybe deflation is part of the definition of a depression since three is not a lot of examples.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
830 Posts |
I'll just paste that whole editorial up, its not that long. I do wish I'd read it back in 2009 when it was written because it seems to be playing out now. Quote: Depression And Inflation Steve Saville Clarifying our depression forecast
Although we are anticipating another great depression we want to emphasise that we are NOT anticipating a replay of the 1930s. We are anticipating a drawn-out period of economic contraction, but the details will almost certainly differ markedly from previous depressions.
One of the most important differences between the coming -- actually, "current" is a more appropriate word since it has probably already begun -- great depression and the 1930-1945 episode is that today's version is likely to be inflationary. An inflationary depression is potentially worse because the inflation (money-supply growth) leads to more mal-investment (more wasted savings) and higher living costs relative to incomes.
Another difference is that the government of today will provide a more extensive 'safety net' for people who fall on hard times. Paradoxically, this could lead to even greater economic weakness than occurred during the 1930s. The reason is that the government pays for the safety net with money that would otherwise have been used in productive endeavours.
On a related matter, the government could all but eliminate unemployment during a depression by giving every unemployed person a government job, which is effectively how the Soviet Union eliminated unemployment (that, and by sending millions of people to forced labour camps). Such a massive expansion of government is our greatest fear because it would make the depression permanent.
Lastly, thanks to the technological advances that have occurred over the past 70 years today's economy is structured very differently to that of the 1930s. However, we don't think this will have a significant bearing on whether our grim economic forecast comes to pass. People in semi-capitalist countries naturally view the present day as the "modern era" and the distant past as a more technologically backward era, but in doing so they often fail to appreciate that the people in the now seemingly backward era viewed the situation in exactly the same way. For example, due to the rapid advances in technology and manufacturing productivity that occurred during the first three decades of the Twentieth Century, many people in 1930 argued that things couldn't possibly get as bad as they were in the 1870s, or even as bad as they were in 1920-1921. We now know that things got much worse, despite the great technological progress that had been made and the associated structural changes that had occurred in the interim.
The fact is that throughout history the bursting of an all-encompassing credit bubble has ALWAYS been followed by a very severe economic downturn, regardless of the economy's structure at the time. This is why credit bubbles must be avoided. Government attempts to 'soften the blow' during the 1930s turned a severe economic downturn into a 15-year depression, and the governments of today are making the same mistakes.
"Inflating away" the debt
Based on emails we have received, a fairly common view seems to be that the government will "inflate away" its own debt problem as well as the problems of debt-ridden private-sector consumers. Our view is that the government will TRY to do this, but as is typically the case it won't work as planned/expected.
Let's think this through. Monetary inflation causes a NON-uniform increase in prices throughout the economy, so someone can only benefit from inflation if his/her income and assets are amongst the INITIAL prices to rise in response to the inflation. For example, a steel worker with an uncomfortably large home mortgage will only benefit from monetary inflation if the inflation causes wages in the steel industry and the prices of homes in his location to rise faster than interest rates and living expenses. However, the opposite is more likely to occur. The excess supply of homes relative to genuine/sustainable demand and the excess capacity in the steel industry that resulted from the preceding boom will probably keep lids on home prices and steel-industry wages for a long time to come.
The average person is rarely helped by inflation because he/she is usually near the end of the line when it comes to the so-called 'positive' effects of inflation. Furthermore, in the current economic environment there is even less chance than usual that the average person will be a beneficiary of monetary inflation, and an even greater chance than usual that they will be hurt by monetary inflation, because the inflation will likely increase living and debt-servicing costs relative to incomes and will very likely do little to support home prices (at least initially). Only those average folk who have substantial exposure to gold-related investments stand a good chance of coming out ahead.
It is always the case that the biggest beneficiaries of inflation are the entities that get the new money first. Therefore, the biggest beneficiaries are usually the government, the banks, and large speculators. And as far as the next few years are concerned it is likely that the government will be the biggest beneficiary by a huge margin. This is because the government can borrow in terms of its own currency without giving any consideration to how the loans will ever be repaid, thus allowing it to grow rapidly at the expense of the private sector. Note, though, that the government can never actually "inflate away" its debt; rather, each new dollar that gets borrowed into existence necessarily results in a liability in excess of one dollar due to the obligation to pay interest. In other words, the debt always grows faster than the money supply. It is therefore a good bet that the quantity of debt will continue to expand until the entire monetary system collapses.
In summary, under the current monetary system the debt can never be "inflated away" because inflation occurs via the creation of additional debt. Furthermore, the people and organisations that benefit from the inflation, at least in the short run, are those that get the new money first. In the long run nobody wins, but if you are a Keynesian you don't care because in the long run we are all dead anyway.
3 March 2009
Edited by GoThunder 08/18/2011 5:31 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4008 Posts |
Quote: I don't know if maybe deflation is part of the definition of a depression since three is not a lot of examples. I don't think that it does. I have heard Bernanke speak of "deflationary depressions", so it seems as if a depression can be either deflationary or inflationary. This may well depend on the root cause of the depression or perhaps what is done to end it. As to, "What is a depression?", the definition I prefer is, "A deep recession coupled with persistent high unemployment". Sound familiar? It should. We've been in one since 2008 and it started with a 50+% loss in the stock market as it fell from 14,000 to 6,600. Virtually all recessions end after about 9-18 months, with about 13 months being the length of the average recession. Employment drops during the recession but then picks up very quickly when the recession ends. In the case of the current "recession", we have been in it for about 3 years now. Yes, I know that the economists and talking heads all say that the recession ended some time ago. Unfortunately, these folks seem to be relying on numbers provided by the Fed and the government. Neither of which is a particularly reliable source of the truth, IMHO. They say, for example, that inflation is 1.5-2% right now. REAL inflation is 10-11%. They say that unemployment is 9.3% right now. REAL unemployment is over 16% right now. These numbers are not difficult to find but hearing from the powers that be that they are much lower surely gives us all a warm and fuzzy feeling that our leaders have the situation well in hand. Not.  All this makes me think that we are looking at two different worlds here. On the TV news, they refer to these as "Wall Street" and "Main Street". Wall Street seems to be doing OK and has come out of its recession. Firms there are hiring people and making money. Main Street, however, is still deeply mired in a depression. A "jobless recovery" is no recovery at all and anyone who wants and needs a job but can't get one is having severe financial difficulties about now.
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