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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,681
national dealer Pillar of the Community United States 2724 Posts	Posted 06/27/2005 8:12 pm I have a dealer friend who purchased an 1889 $3 gold piece and a 1926 Sesquicentennial quarter eagle. Both of these coins were counterfeit. Both were good sliders and were purchased along with many other various gold coins. Neither had any appearence of being counterfeit. Both are made of gold, (not sure of mixture yet), both have the correct weight, diameter, and thickness. Neither of these coins are considered "rare" or very expensive. These are without doubt the ABSOLUTE best counterfeits I have ever seen. Both fooled more than one dealer in the past few weeks. For those of you that are looking for gold coins, I would highly suggest considering having them slabbed prior to purchase. No idea on where these came from or how long they have been on the market, but these are near flawless. As mentioned in other threads, counterfeiters are using better techniques and better equipment. Be careful out there. ND Report this Post to the Staff

OldDan Pillar of the Community United States 1203 Posts	Posted 06/27/2005 9:37 pm quote: Originally posted by national dealer These are without doubt the ABSOLUTE best counterfeits I have ever seen. Both fooled more than one dealer in the past few weeks. ND I shake my head in amazement when I'm told that a coin that has been dipped in soap and water has been cleaned and yet we can't tell when we are handling fake coins. Maybe we are concentrating on the wrong things! Report this Post to the Staff
national dealer Pillar of the Community United States 2724 Posts	Posted 06/27/2005 9:46 pm There are SO FEW people who truly study coins these days. For most dealers, the act of buying and selling coins takes up most of the time. For collectors, it is life that gets in the way. These two coins were sent for certification. I was presented with the coins last week, and spent many hours looking for the flaw. I was unable to do a gravity test, but found some minor transfer marks from the original die copy. This would easily pass time and time again. I am 100% positive that these are not the only 2 examples of these counterfeits. Someone took great effort to create dies, smelt the gold, and produce these coins. I believe that they were originally UNC coins that were carried around for a few weeks to give the AU grade. The first thing that I noticed was the lack of bag marks. While not a dead giveaway, it was enough to cause me to look for more. I however doubt that if these coins were offered to me that I would have taken the time to look. When shown to me, the dealer made it clear that these were counterfeit. Of course he is out better than $1500 for the pair. Just goes to show you that with all the third party grading problems, they still serve a purpose. Report this Post to the Staff
Mike Rest in Peace United States 2884 Posts	Posted 06/27/2005 10:56 pm Hi ND, I could almost understand someone faking the 1889 $3.00 because of the low mintage (2300),last year of the series and relative value, about 2k or so in AU58. What surprises me is the 1926 Sesquicentennial quarter eagle. In AU58 its only about 3 or 4 hundred dollars! I agree, if someone went to that much trouble, volume would be the only motivation. It makes you wonder how many are out there put away or slabbed by a low tier TPG. Weird stuff! Mike ($1500.00 seems like quite a low price for both of them) Mike Edited by Mike 06/27/2005 10:57 pm Report this Post to the Staff
national dealer Pillar of the Community United States 2724 Posts	Posted 06/28/2005 7:34 pm I have temporarily taken custody of these coins. I will post some photos on Thursday or Friday. I think that it will be interesting if anyone here can spot the areas that confirm that these are fakes. Report this Post to the Staff
SFDukie Pillar of the Community United States 980 Posts	Posted 06/28/2005 9:21 pm Looking forward to the pics-with the morbid fascination of viewing a train wreck! This is really scary- just when I think I can ID a fake ebay Trade dollar (hint #1-ebay raw Trade dollar, #2 ebay raw Trade dollar, #3 ditto , #4 chinese seller who doesn't take paypal, #5 grayish cast, #6 casting seam...). Thanks ND... Don Report this Post to the Staff
Mike Rest in Peace United States 2884 Posts	Posted 06/29/2005 12:29 am ND, Do you think these were contemporary knock offs or moderns? If they are old ones, are they valuable in their own right? Mike Report this Post to the Staff
national dealer Pillar of the Community United States 2724 Posts	Posted 06/29/2005 09:15 am I have no clue on these. I am truly at a loss. The gold is near 22 karat, but still no idea on the mixture. It isn't plated gold, but may not be exact to Mint standards. Anything near 75% would certianly be cost effective for the counterfeiter. I have seen many good and bad counterfeits over the years, but these top the list by a mile. The truly scary part of this is, that with the lower values, most would not think twice. While the 1889 has a lower mintage, the values really do not reflect this. In AU-50 the coin has a bid of $1175. This is lower than most other years. The 1926 Sesquicentennial has an AU-50 bid of $395. This is not a hard coin to find anywhere. The vast majority of these are raw. Not a lot of demand for slabbed pieces. As I have been thinking about these coins since first seeing them last week, I am very glad that I deal in slabbed coins. Report this Post to the Staff
Mike Rest in Peace United States 2884 Posts	Posted 06/29/2005 6:42 pm ND, in your first post on these coins you said they were both "good sliders" and intimated that this may have been done intentionally to deter much attention from being paid to them. It also creates a huge reduction in value for the 1889. AU50's in these coins are much less than 58's. Are they that well worn so as to only be AU50's? Thats even more weird! I also read that the 1889 $3.00 coins may have a very low population because some never made it to circulation and were melted due to the discontinuation of the series. Do you think someone made a bunch of these? What about some other dates on the #3.00 coins? Is there any connection to these coins being found at the same time? Do you think it was the same forger at work? They, even in numismatic terms seem totally disconnected! The plot thickens. Mike Edited by Mike 06/30/2005 8:12 pm Report this Post to the Staff
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