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 Replies: 17 / Views: 3,375 |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
Hi all, I know nothing about these coins unfortunately, just something I got in a job lot. Hopefully you can give me some info ( if its real ) so I can tag it. Weight - 5.50g Size - 25mm   Apologies if I have got it upside down. TIA |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
It is a Jia Qing Tong Bao. Something doesn't look right with this coin. Let me look at my Hartill guide and I'll tell you more.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Not a specialty of mine, but I think it's from the Chai-Ch'ing reign of Emperor Jen Tsung (1796-1820) and struck at the Board of Revenue Mint.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
06/07/2015 10:19 pm
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Valued Member
United States
262 Posts |
Concur. Looks like Hartill 22.481. (Top photo should be rotated 180 degrees). However, I'm not sufficiently familiar with these to authenticate it. Hopefully TypeCoin will chime in again.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
It could be real, but Hartill does not recognize this variety. The Tong (the character to the right on the obverse) should have two dots to the left of the character (New Branch of the Board of Works Mint), but there is only one. If it had one dot, the top stroke of Tong sould be squarish (Auxilary Branch of the Board of Works mint), not swoopy as seen on this coin. Also, what was getting me before was the hole being to small for most genuine issues and the inner rim on both sides is too bold. Based on this evidence, I would have to say this coin is fake. It could be a rare new variety but I'm not proficient enough in Qing cash to make that call.
You are not losing much as this coin would be worth a dollar or less if it were genuine. However, I have no Idea why someone would make such a high-quality fake of a coin that is so common and of very little value.
I have a contact that is far mor knowledgeable about these than I am. I'll send him your pictures and I'll post what he says, if that is fine with you.
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Pillar of the Community
 United Kingdom
701 Posts |
Many thanks for your efforts TypeCoin, greatly appreciated  Feel free to share the pics, I will take some more for you shortly. Thx again |
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
Some more pics for you     It does appear rather crude on closer inspection, could it be a contemporary counterfeit ? The pics are yours to use freely TypeCoin. Thx again Edited by tenbobbit
06/08/2015 10:13 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
However, I have no Idea why someone would make such a high-quality fake of a coin that is so common and of very little value. My reaction, also, it just makes no sense to forge them. I have just a handful of these cash coins myself, picked up whenever they present themselves in a bargain bin, and darned if when I checked those, I didn't find I had this one, the authenticity of which I had initially questioned until I realized how ordinary and low priced the genuine article is....  Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
06/08/2015 10:23 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
@tenbobbit
Email sent! I should hear back from him within three days.
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Moderator
 Australia
16834 Posts |
I have to say, my first instinct on looking at it was "Vietnamese privately-made copy". Quote:
However, I have no Idea why someone would make such a high-quality fake of a coin that is so common and of very little value.
My reaction, also, it just makes no sense to forge them.In East Asia, there isn't really any such thing as "too cheap to counterfeit" - and has not been for hundreds of years. The Vietnamese copies of Chinese coins date from several hundred years ago, mostly to brief periods of time when the Annamese kings declared that commoners would be permitted to make their own coins. Add in Japanese traders bringing in their own cheap counterfeits and the numismatic chaos that ensued was predictable, in hindsight. There's a big, long list of Chinese coins for which Vietnamese lookalikes are known, and Jia Qing is certainly one of them. In more modern times, replicas of cash coins are mass-produced as charms. These modern fakes most often have a "machine-made" look to them. Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Point taken, Sap. Of course, we all know how contemporary counterfeits liven up any particular numismatic genre.
I'd comment that the specimen with which tenbobbit started this thread seems to me curious for the irregular and crude central cutout, but then the example I psoted a picture of is imperfect in this regard, also.
Colligo ergo sum
Edited by Lucky Cuss
06/08/2015 7:41 pm
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
My initial feelings about this coin were correct. Here is what my expert says: Quote:
It's not a charm. There are "jia qing tong bao" charms but they have good luck characters or symbols on the reverse side and not the name of a mint written in Manchu.
I agree with your points regarding the coin.
It is definitely a fake.
The quality of the metal, patina, calligraphy, lack of wear pattern, etc. are not correct for an official coin cast during the reign of the Jiaqing Emperor.
The qing (#24950;) looks very strange. The left stroke of the #21378; swings too far to the left and there is too much separation from the #24515;.
It is most probably modern and made in China, or possibly Vietnam.
Sometimes these coins are manufactured to be sold as souvenirs. A set of five "Qing dynasty" coins, representing the "Five Emperors" (Shunzhi, Kangxi, Yongzheng, Qianlong, Jiaqing), is believed in modern fengshui to bring good luck. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
6370 Posts |
@Lucky Cuss
Your example looks fine. The hole is much more of your typical cash coin hole than this one.
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
TypeCoin, Thank you for your efforts I have gained lots of knowledge whilst losing a worthless coin, being the pragmatic type I am more than happy with that outcome. I will avoid them like the plague from now on. Thx again my friend |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
4883 Posts |
Quote:
I will avoid them like the plague from now on. I think that's the wrong conclusion to draw from this episode. Billions of the genuine article were produced over the course of centuries, so most you'll encounter will be "real" - and those that are old counterfeits have their historical place as well. The only thing to steer clear of would be modern reproductions, and you ought to be able to learn to spot those. As a coin type, these are a great field for collecting. Tremendous variety, availability, and affordability that can't be matched by other numismatic items of similar age. They're also well documented and classified, so that you can become reasonably knowledgable pretty quickly. You won't get rich collecting Chinese cash coins, but what else can you pull out of the bargain bins that's any more intriguing, and your "mistakes" aren't likely to cost you much, either. Colligo ergo sum
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Pillar of the Community
United Kingdom
701 Posts |
I didn't mean to be derogatory with my comments LuckyCuss, I do admit that I could have worded it better though. Apologies if I offended any collectors of these coins  |
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Replies: 17 / Views: 3,375 |
Posted 06/07/2015 5:59 pm
