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 Replies: 41 / Views: 16,897 |
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Pillar of the Community
 United States
7942 Posts |
First comparison...
I picked a common Morgan, the 1889 in MS63.
For last 3 months, there are 18 NGC graded and 20 PCGS graded in that PCGS database.
Median selling price:
NGC $45
PCGS $48
Statistically it's a tie, as the standard error is greater than the difference.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
1261 Posts |
Quote:
Statistically it's a tie, as the standard error is greater than the difference. I know you want to 'run the numbers' and see for yourself but for dealers and those following the coin market there really isn't any debate. PCGS gets higher prices than NGC or any other TPG for that matter and PCGS with the CAC sticker is the gold standard right now bringing in the highest prices.  |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
36746 Posts |
Buy the coin, not the holder. Find one that looks best for a decent price and ignore which slab it's in.
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Pillar of the Community
Canada
605 Posts |
Hey guys,
A lot of you have miles of experience over me but I am curious who do you guys think grades better ? Do we need a new topic or can we keep this going? I like to know who you guys feel grades better and is more consistent.
Thanks,
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Pillar of the Community
United States
3471 Posts |
I prefer the PCGS holder over the NGC holder, but always buy the better coin.
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7942 Posts |
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I know you want to 'run the numbers' and see for yourself but for dealers and those following the coin market there really isn't any debate. PCGS gets higher prices than NGC or any other TPG @chesterb, I certainly respect the experience of those who are making a living in the field. That was just one example, and I think it supported some comments that at lower prices there is little difference. I'll also check out some higher priced coins. I started looking at 1909-S VDB upwards of VF, but there were so few examples in that auction database that were NGC graded that I figured I would try something else. |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
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That was just one example, and I think it supported some comments that at lower prices there is little difference. I'll also check out some higher priced coins. I started looking at 1909-S VDB upwards of VF, but there were so few examples in that auction database that were NGC graded that I figured I would try something else. Common date common grade morgans are going to be about the same price for all of them. There's really just not enough room for a spread on things valued under 50 for classic coins. Moderns you could see it, but the moderns are a bit of a pain as you kind of have to look at every listing to see which ones to throw out as sometimes there's multiples offered and I don't believe anything sold with a best offer is getting accurate data. Just wouldn't make sense for so many best offers to sell for only a few cents less than the listing price so I just throw out any of the best offer listings from ebay. There are certainly limits to the database as well, but as you mentioned you can often see a lack of NGC ones in better grades, which is because people are sending those to PCGS more or crossing them over more. |
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7375 Posts |
IMHO NGC tends to be a technical grader. Am more confident of the grade NGC gives. PCGS leans a bit toward market grading, and will give a small bump to eye appeal. Buy the coin...
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7942 Posts |
I've looked at handful more coin/grade combinations in the database posted by basebal21, which contains publicly accessible auction results (eBay, Heritage, Stacks and a few others). Here is what I am seeing so far: 1. For every type I looked at, there are more PCGS graded coins changing hands than NGC. So, at the very least, this suggests sellers prefer having PCGS 2. I do not yet see any clear trend in prices being better for one TPG over the other. 3. The analysis might improve with more data than just a few months' worth (this was a "quick and dirty" shot involving just a few hours time on my part... I'll gladly accept suggestions on other things to look at). Here are the results, as median sale price over the indicated time period (I only varied the time period in order to get more examples for the statistics): 1889 Morgan $1 MS63 (Oct-Dec 2018): NGC $45, PCGS $48 1877 IHC XF40-45 (May-Dec 2018): NGC $1735, PCGS $1906 1891CC Morgan $1 MS62 (Aug-Dec 2018): NGC $543, PCGS $484 1891CC Morgan $1 MS63 (Aug-Dec 2018): NGC $690, PCGS $660 1924 $20 Gold MS65 (Sept-Dec 2018): NGC $1500, PCGS $1440 Presumably the TPGs have dedicated number crunchers on staff who are spending a lot more time on this than I am. If they were seeing clear trends, I imagine they would be using that information to market their services. Edited by tdziemia
12/20/2018 6:05 pm
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
3. The analysis might improve with more data than just a few months' worth (this was a "quick and dirty" shot involving just a few hours time on my part... I'll gladly accept suggestions on other things to look at). The IHC is one of the better selections you picked to see it. For the Morgans 62 is no longer a desirable grade for them so that can really be all over the place. Most people would hold out for a 63 and really a 64 or better if they can possibly afford it. Morgans as a series though don't have much spread between the services unless you are talking about massive toners, like the real massive ones or top grades. For the double eagle look at that coin again, but this time look at the MS 67 grade. A lot of double eagle gold is basically treated as bullion now a days and there's pretty standardized premiums until you get in the highest grades or you have a 65/66ish or better with a CAC sticker. Obviously that isn't true for every date but overall for the series they have become a classic bullion coin. |
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Bedrock of the Community
United States
12477 Posts |
Quote:Quote:
I don't think the $8 difference in those listings has anything to do with who graded them. It's too small of a range to matter. And too small a population to draw any kind of conclusion. Too small a population of what, exactly? In Memory of Crazyb0 12-26-1951 to 7-27-2020
In Memory of Tootallious 3-31-1964 to 4-15-2020
In Memory of T-BOP 10-12-1949 to 1-19-2024
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7942 Posts |
The way I read the original post, the poster says they have seen one NGC graded coin listed for $30 and one PCGS coin at the same grade listed at $22, and then asks a question which I think we are taking as "does this mean NGC graded coins sell at higher prices than PCGS graded coins?"
In my opinion the best way to answer that is by comparing actual selling prices over the same period of time, of larger populations of the same coin with the same grade from the two services.
So ...larger population of coins at the same grade from the two services is the answer to your question.
basebal21 has linked to a database which has some information that might (or might not) be helpful, depending on what question we're trying to answer.
Edited by tdziemia
12/21/2018 08:24 am
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Pillar of the Community
United States
7942 Posts |
@basebal21, Quote:The IHC is one of the better selections you picked to see it. It is true that this was the one I found with what looks like a sizeable bias (10% higher) in favor of PCGS, but there was so much variability that a real statistician would say there is no difference between those. Quote:
For the Morgans 62 is no longer a desirable grade for them so that can really be all over the place. Most people would hold out for a 63 and really a 64 or better if they can possibly afford it. Morgans as a series though don't have much spread between the services unless you are talking about massive toners, like the real massive ones or top grades. I only chose MS62 because there were a lot of NGC MS62 in the database, somewhat more than MS63 (there are A LOT of PCGS MS63 in the database). As we see, regardless of 62 or 63, over the last 6 months the selling prices were nearly the same for that coin regardless of the TPG |
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Bedrock of the Community
13014 Posts |
Quote:
I only chose MS62 because there were a lot of NGC MS62 in the database, somewhat more than MS63 (there are A LOT of PCGS MS63 in the database). As we see, regardless of 62 or 63, over the last 6 months the selling prices were nearly the same for that coin regardless of the TPG I certainly understand that. I was basically just trying to save you time, Morgans are a series where unless it's the top grades or a toner for regular ones the prices are pretty standardized and there isn't much difference. The common grade ones go for basically the same price as todays market treats them more as a commodity. Same goes for many grades/dates with the St Gaudens. If you look at that 1924 double eagle again though with the MS 67 grade you see the PCGS ones consistently have significant premiums over NGC and the PCGS CAC ones blow everything out of the water. |
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Bedrock of the Community
Australia
21788 Posts |
I certainly hope that PCGS and NGC are reading this debate, here in the CCF !  |
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Replies: 41 / Views: 16,897 |
First Page
Posted 12/19/2018 10:05 am
