Fake/Counterfeit Detection: 1841 Seated Liberty Dollar

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Author	Replies: 8 / Views: 1,701
CCFPress Press Manager United States 1420 Posts	Posted 06/19/2023 1:56 pm NGC - The 1840s were a time of real change for the silver dollar, but this particular coin is a fake. The Seated Liberty dollar series began in 1840, when the silver dollar was struck in large quantities for the first time in decades. The acclaimed Christian Gobrecht design shows Liberty seated on a rock encircled by stars, and it was used on all US coins from the Half Dime to the dollar in the mid-19th century. Genuine 1841 Seated Liberty Dollar The 1841 Dollar had one of the highest mintages before the Civil War and is certainly not a key date. Nevertheless, 1841 Dollars today generally cost hundreds of dollars in the lowest grades and several thousand dollars for the scarce Mint State examples, which is plenty of incentive for a counterfeiter. A recent submission to NGC contained an 1841 Seated Liberty dollar that turned out to be a fake. Counterfeit 1841 Seated Liberty Dollar This counterfeit was struck from dies made from a genuine coin. We know this because it has depressions and marks that are similar to another coin that NGC examined several years earlier and declined to certify. These marks came from the original coin, were captured on the counterfeit dies and were replicated in every fake coin struck with those dies. Another 1841 Seated Liberty dollar that NGC did not certify Locations of repeating marks and depressions on the two coins Two coins should not share the same set of marks, which generally come from the rigors associated with circulation in commerce. The similar marks and depressions are highlighted in red in the images above: Counterfeits struck from dies that are created from genuine coins can be difficult to spot. If you have any doubts about your authentication skills, remember that NGC backs its determinations of authenticity and grade with the NGC Guarantee. Read More: Counterfeit Detection Series Check out 1841 Seated Liberty Dollars on ebay. Report this Post to the Staff

Jaobler Pillar of the Community United States 6381 Posts	Posted 06/20/2023 12:25 pm Looks like a pretty deceptive fake. Other than slightly weak definition at the rims it appears OK. If the price was right I might have been tempted. What was the weight? Has the composition been checked by XRF? Are there any other "tells" besides the duplicate marks carried over from the original genuine coin? Report this Post to the Staff
ExoGuy Pillar of the Community United States 4415 Posts	Posted 06/21/2023 10:52 am Quote: NGC backs its determinations of authenticity and grade with the NGC Guarantee. Exactly what is the NGC guarantee? Report this Post to the Staff
kbbpll Pillar of the Community United States 4233 Posts	Posted 06/21/2023 2:24 pm Quote: Exactly what is the NGC guarantee? https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-gradin...c-guarantee/ Report this Post to the Staff
ExoGuy Pillar of the Community United States 4415 Posts	Posted 06/21/2023 2:45 pm Thanks for the reply, the link. I was curious because I've seen and heard of ever so many certification errors made by NGC over my decades of collecting. I experienced a few bad calls, myself. Inevitably, NGC's errors result in a collector's loss of funds. It's good to see when they get something correct. but I generally view slabbing with NGC as gamble. Report this Post to the Staff
kbbpll Pillar of the Community United States 4233 Posts	Posted 06/21/2023 3:02 pm @burfle23 (?) tracks how many authenticated counterfeits he's seen from the 4 main TPGs and I don't think NGC is at the top of the pack. Not sure what other "certification errors" you might be referring to though. Report this Post to the Staff
burfle23 Pillar of the Community United States 517 Posts	Posted 06/21/2023 7:37 pm One of the things I look at when evaluating "suspect" coins are differences between them and a genuine example. In this case I see an indication of repairs made creating differences in the NGC subject coins relative to a genuine one; genuine example in the middle: The top one may well be the genuine source coin after repairs were made... The 2nd image focuses on the same area but primarily the "E"; the bottom image is from another genuine coin: Many of the decptive counterfeits started as damaged and repaired genuine ones; the repaired areas of these suggest an original source example similar to this: To @kbbpll's point I do have a spread sheet of the number of counterfeit coins that have been certified genuine by the major TPGs but don't publicly publish which TPG is which...... Edited by burfle23 06/21/2023 7:41 pm Report this Post to the Staff
Dearborn Moderator United States 94636 Posts	Posted 06/21/2023 9:55 pm well this is all good information here Collecting since 1972. Learning from then on "Tell me and I forget. Teach me and I remember. Involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin 7070 type set coin count: 51/76 Uncirculated American Silver Eagles My American Silver Eagle Proof Collection Sacagawea Dollars Innovation Dollars Eisenhower-Dollars Kennedy-Half Dollars Washington-Quarters Roosevelt-Dimes Buffalo-Nickels 1938-2005 Jefferson-Nickels Lincoln-Cents Report this Post to the Staff
ExoGuy Pillar of the Community United States 4415 Posts	Posted 06/22/2023 08:53 am I can't help but wonder if these counterfeit Seated coins might not have a different metal composition? An XRF analyzer would tell. BTW, good detective work, guys .... Edited by ExoGuy 06/22/2023 08:54 am Report this Post to the Staff
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