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717-741 Ad Byzantine Leo III The Isaurian, With Constantine V, NGC Ch Au, Strike 5/5, Surface 2/5

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CCFPress's Avatar
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 Posted 06/18/2026  5:23 pm Show Profile   Bookmark this topic Add CCFPress to your friends list Get a Link to this Message Number of Subscribers
PCGS - Coin of the Day: Byzantine Emperor Leo III died on this day in 741. This gold solidus shows him on the obverse and his son and successor, Constantine V, on the reverse. You can find it in a Heritage Auctions Coins sale of Byzantine coinage:https://coins.ha.com/itm/ancients/b...1633-22088.s

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717-741-Ad-Byzantine-Leo-III-The-Isaurian,-With-Constantine-V,-NGC-Ch-Au,-Strike-5/5,-Surface-2/5

717-741-Ad-Byzantine-Leo-III-The-Isaurian,-With-Constantine-V,-NGC-Ch-Au,-Strike-5/5,-Surface-2/5

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HondoB's Avatar
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 Posted 06/18/2026  11:18 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add HondoB to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Very interesting coin!
Does "2/5 Surface" indicate an overly aggressive cleaning in the past?
Inordinately fascinated by bits of metal with strange markings and figures
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jbuck's Avatar
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 Posted 06/19/2026  09:03 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add jbuck to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
Pretty amazing example.


Quote:
Does "2/5 Surface" indicate an overly aggressive cleaning in the past?
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 Posted 06/19/2026  12:17 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
I sent a 'batch' out to NGC two years back .
I am completely mystified as to how they grade the 'surface' of ancients !
More than a few of mine came back 2/5 which supposedly translates as being in the 20-40 out of a hundred range ?

More to the point .
Choice AU "bent" ?
What in Hades is that supposed to mean ?
The finest bent coin !

Seriously ?
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2026  08:53 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
Does "2/5 Surface" indicate an overly aggressive cleaning in the past?

Sometimes, but not always. The "surface" component of the grade reflects the degree of intactness or originality of the coin's original surface - "original" being "the surface it had when it was originally lost and buried". In this context, "wear" does not reduce the "surface" quality.

Things that affect "surface" would include harsh cleaning, but would also include corrosion, physical damage from plough or trowel, or simply indentations caused by compression into dirt. As a general rule, "low surface" will have as it's chief symptom "porosity" - cratering like a mini-moonscape, looking like the surface of the coin is either corroded, or corrosion was removed by harsh chemicals.

Note that it's possible for a coin - particularly a copper, brass or bronze coin - to have "good surfaces" and yet still be covered in green corrosion. An ancient bronze coin's patina can be quite thick, up to several millimetres thick - which means that "the original surface" is not even preserved in the raw metal of the underlying coin, but in the patina - in effect, the coin's original surface is kind of like a fossil, where the original metal has been replaced by minerals from the surrounding soil. Strip away this thick patina by overly zealous cleaning - the proverbial "strip the coin all the way back to bare metal" - and you will completely remove that original surface, giving you a 0/5 score.

For a high-purity gold coin like the OP coin, corrosion of the coin itself should not be a problem - the surface damage is likely going to be physical (from the coin being in direct contact with something underground). There's also indications on this coin that it may have been buried with other metallic objects (either baser-metal coins or something else), and that other metal has corroded, causing secondary corrosion-like damage to appear on this coin. That, at least, would be my explanation for the staining on the emperor's shoulder and onthe reverse around the N of CONST, and the "rough spots" on the E in Leo and the cross atop the emperor's crown. That, I would assume, is the kind of burial-related damage that's causing the low-surface rating.
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Sap's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2026  09:07 am  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add Sap to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
More to the point .
Choice AU "bent" ?
What in Hades is that supposed to mean ?
The finest bent coin !

"Choice AU" is the wear-related condition of the coin. Just wear contributes tot his grade. It's akin to a modern coin getting an "AU details" grade: from a wear-alone point of view, the coin would be in AU condition, but...

In other words, any "damage" or other unusual features you're seeing on this coin is not caused by ordinary circulation wear, but by something that happened to it while underground.

I hadn't noticed the "bent" comment when making my assessment of the surface in the previous post. I would assume that the bending damage is also contributing to the poor surface rating, since bending creases are also going to contribute to the "unoriginal surface".

A brief note of explanation for the uninitiated: ancient and mediaeval coins, especially the thinner types, are very prone to getting "bent" - usually either when they were lost, or at some time while buried underground. Now, a coin that has been "bent" can physically be "un-bent", but an un-bent coin is almost always going to show signs of that un-bending having taken place, in the form of various creases and flaws along the bend-line. Because being bent is such a common occurrence for certain coin types (such as mediaeval English hammered coins, for example), getting a coin with a bend or evidence of having been bent and un-bent is not the automatic death sentence that it would be for a more modern coin. Bent coins are still quite collectable - though obviously, everyone is going to want to prefer to own never-been-bent coins if they are available, so prices for those will be at a premium.
Don't say "infinitely" when you mean "very"; otherwise, you'll have no word left when you want to talk about something really infinite. - C. S. Lewis
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 Posted 06/20/2026  1:11 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add FVRIVS RVFVS to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply
By way of example
Looked for a 2/5 on Nero and first one I found .
717-741-Ad-Byzantine-Leo-III-The-Isaurian,-With-Constantine-V,-NGC-Ch-Au,-Strike-5/5,-Surface-2/5
Note the XF grade !

Now here is one of my 'favorites' from my collection
Nero of course !
After a rather 'near miss' health event several years back I sent out 30 coins to NGC
The results were .. "mixed"

717-741-Ad-Byzantine-Leo-III-The-Isaurian,-With-Constantine-V,-NGC-Ch-Au,-Strike-5/5,-Surface-2/5

Same 'strike' grade 5/5
Same 'surface' grade 2/5

But mine gets a Choice VF
The other ..
XF "Fine Style" !

Seriously ?
Who is kidding who .

As to the Leo III solidus .
Tallest midget !
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tdziemia's Avatar
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 Posted 06/20/2026  5:32 pm  Show Profile   Bookmark this reply Add tdziemia to your friends list Get a Link to this Reply

Quote:
A brief note of explanation for the uninitiated: ancient and mediaeval coins, especially the thinner types, are very prone to getting "bent" - usually either when they were lost, or at some time while buried underground.


I have even wondered if it can occur during manufacture.
Susceptibility to an object being bent when a given force is exerted depends on (a) the flexural modulus and yield stress, which are inherent properties of the material (bronze being nearly 50% "stronger" than silver or gold), and (b) the thickness of the object (you can't bend a 1 cm thick aluminum rod with your bare hands but you can bend 1/1000 cm thick aluminum foil very easily).
When coin blanks are heated in order to hammer them, the modulus of the metal decreases significantly. I can imagine a freshly struck (and still hot) coin that sticks to the die for some reason could easily get bent on attempts to remove it. Especially if the blank got overheated a bit.

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